As in ersatz coffee ( coffee made from acorns in Germany during WWII) So tell me Sarah if the Palestinians are not Palestinians what are they?

What do you mean by "some guaranteed rights"? The right to free movement? The right to live where they want (if they can afford it)? The right to vote for representatives in the Knesset(parliament)? Anything less, and it's not a democratic state. If we go for the "one state solulion" the final result will be a Muslim State and not a Jewish one.

coming to claim their rightful homes from descendents of illegal European squatters in Moose Piss, er..Silver Bay, Mn. Get used to it!

Actually your little essay is nearer the truth than some of the hallucinating we get from Chaim, Sarah B. USA and those who think like them.

56 sam of Canada informs adi from nablus that nobody in Israel is going to grant him citizenship and that is before reading sarah b the queen b of sanity here.

So why is it that our PM does not see things as we do? It seems that he is paying lip service to the TWO STATE SOLUTION while doing everything possible to avoid it.

Learn your history! South Africa gave autonomy to all the tribes in that country. SEVEN AUTONOMOUS STATES. Global concensus was not taken in by that trick, and the boycott of White South Africa continued unlil the collapse of that regime which until then had the strongest economy and military in Africa.

Wishful thinking, Global Consensus will never buy your dreams. (See my post to # 12)

I, my children and grandchildren all live in Israel and have ONLY Israeli citizenship, and sometimes in my despair I think that the only way to save Israel would be if we became the 51st State.

It's about time Palestinians stopped deluding themselves. Israel is not going to have a one state solution or allow a Palestinian right of return into Israel. Jewish moderates and most of the world believe in a peace that leads to Jewish and Palestinian states. Palestinians reject that. Tough luck. You get the status quo.

Not even our best friend and guardian, the USA agrees with you. In fact GLOBAL CONSENSUS is that it is Palestinian Land. White South Africa was the strongest state on the continent, but 25 years of boycott caused it to collapse. Jewish arrogance led to the destruction of the Temple 63CE and Jews were banned from Jerusalem FOR 500 years after the unsuccessful revolt by Bar Kochba 132CE. SO WHAT ARE YOU AND YOUR FELLOW SETTLERS DOING TO US?

# 56's "dream" is closer to reality than yours.

Israeli politicians built the box that Israel is in and keep hammering nails into the lid. All those rights you enumerated. The new state could be non-religious and bi-cameral. But the Box is built.

Before you begin "repatrating" Arabs, don't forget that in 1880 about 94.5% 450,000 of the population west of the riverJordan were Arabs. There were about 24000 Jews, (In Safad, Tiberius and Jerusalem) This may not affect you, but if there is repatriation it will affect us much more than the Arabs. To get a better understanding of Israel's problems, I recommend you read "The Unmaking of Israel" by GERSHOM GORENBERG

Your English is lousy but your thinking is crystal clear,

You are 100% correct.

I could not have said it better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

San Remo simply confirmed The Balfour Declaration which DID NOT give all of Palestine to the Jews. Global Consensus supports the establishment of a Palestinian State alongside Israel. The final borders will be decided in direct negotiations between the two sides.

Ah, you have fallen victim to the KoolAid. Not surprising, actually. The ersatz "Palestinians" are relative newcomers to the region, coming from the Hejaz in the Western Arabian desert. When the British discovered oil in Iraq and in Saudi Arabia, they shooed the nomadic tribes that wandered about the Arabian desert towards Palestine. Prior to the immediate aftermath of World War One, there were almost no Arabs in Palestine -- and those that were there were nomadic Bedouins, not a settled people. That did not happen until the mid-1920s. Families there for centuries? Surely not even you are that poorly educated! I strongly suggest that you read Mark Twain's "Innocents Abroad." You will get a far better picture of the barren and inhospitable land that greeted the Jews of the First and Second Aliyot. The northern part of present-day Israel was malarial swamp, and the south was barren and unforgiving desert. It was the Jews that redeemed the land; it was the Jews that coaxed life back into barren desert, and it was the Jews who drained the swamps. Were it up to the Arabs, Israel would look like the rest of the Middle East -- barren, unforsaken, endless sand.

Were things up to "global consensus," do you really think that there would be a Jew alive, anywhere? Please. No one ever thought that the modern State of Israel would ever survive, let alone thrive -- we were supposed to disappear under the onslaught of conquering Arab armies. Well, that didn't happen. Anti-Semitism hasn't disappeared -- it has merely morphed into hatred of the State of Israel, the most concrete and tangible representation of the Jewish people. Who cares about the rest of the globe? The great unwashed can say what they want; the Europeans -- well on the way to extinction -- can say whatever they want. Am Israel has seen all of them come -- and we will see all of them go. Nothing new under the sun, is there?

There will continue to be an endless argument over the the 'facts'. Let's be honest, no matter whether a large stable Arab population had lived in Palestine for centuries, or even millenia, it would make no difference to your position. Your argument is based on primordialism i.e. we were always (?) here so we have a 'divine' /'legal' right to the land. Of course, it's pure sophistry to say there is no religious dimension to this argument, since the Bible is its main source, however much you deny it. Archaeological evidence was never the justification for an 'inalienable' right to the land.

It's not surprising after all those pressures he must have faced at the top. Looks like the usual "we're the problem" ramblings. "Avoid a repeat of the disengagement from Gaza", he says. And how exactly are you going to stop the Arabs firing rockets from there? A referendum would be fine though. There's no way most Israelis would agree to the narrowing of the country, with a hostile "Pal" state next door.

Peaceful? There has never been a peaceful ersatz "Palestinian" anything. It is way too late for you. Israel will annex Judea and Samaria, and you will be repatriated to Jordan, country of your citizenship. You can rename it whatever you like. Why should you be content to be ruled by a half-British, half-Iraqi tyrant and his Kuwaiti bride?

The only real Palestinians always have been and always will be the Jews. You need look only at the census records during the Ottoman Era and during the British Mandate in Palestine. Only the Jews are referred to as Palestinians. The Arabs are consistently referred to as Arab or Bedouin. The ersatz "Palestinians" co-opted that identity from the Jewish people. They invented a fictional history to go along with it. Looks like they duped you. Perhaps you are not all that bright.

No, my arguments are based on the results of six wars (all started by the Arabs) and the fact of seven decades of terror. Israel has no intention of being dislodged or having its sovereignty casually dismissed. And we've got the military might to have things our way. Did not a handful of poorly armed Jews throw the mighty British Empire out of Palestine?

You are a racist of the worst kind. I'm sure you're proud of your definition "The great unwashed ....." If you were not a Jew you would have been a racist anti- Semite. There are racists in every nation, just as there are geniuses, brave people and cowards There are rapists and murderers, swindlers and thieves, kind and cruel. Our people, the Jews, are no better and no worse than other Nations. So your contention that global consensus would like our people to disappear off the face of the earth is utter crap. Since 1970 Israel has become less and less popular, all because of the occupation. You are oblivious to the suffering of a nation under occupation and crimes committed against innocent non combatants in order to sustain this occupation.

Sweet Sarah you may be brighter than me, but you refuse to face up to reality. Let me know which census defined the Arabs and Jews as you say it did. You ignored the Facts I gave you that only a little more that 5% of the population in 1880 were Jews. You have your agenda and you are sticking to it (same as Bibi) You think that "TIME IS ON OUR SIDE" Well you are wrong, whatever happens here may not affect you, but if we do not rid ourselves of this cancer (Judea and Samaria) then I am afraid that in 30 years my children and granchildren will no longer have a Jewish state in which to live.

We already get missiles deeper and deeper in Israel. Now even 'Germany', (our 'greatest' ally of all times, right?), might support the Arabs. The whole of Europe is becoming more and more muslims (Catholics and Protestants are getting less religious, and the muslims are getting stronger). So what is the proposal? To give out half of Israel, because we believe that the UN will 'condemn' us less? Remember how much the UN supported Assad all those years? How many times have we been 'condemned' in the North. See how lucky we were not to deal with this thug. What's the lesson? To deal with Abbas who's only goal is to politically damage Israel, and incite his people? Seriously, I'm open to suggestions. What is the suggestion? To just give up and all close ourselves in Tel Aviv?

Quite right. Practically all nation-states are the products of war. Nothing to do with legitimacy or legality. Sovereignty is the consequence of military victory, not ancient history. In which case, there is always the possibility that such sovereignty will be challenged - as Jabotinsky noted. He knew it was a fight between Jewish colonisers (his term) and the Arabs. In 2012, though, perhaps we ought to be able to settle these things in a more civilised manner. This is clearly not your bag, is it? More like blood, bombs and missiles. Incidentally, the Jews were pushing at an open door as far as the British were concerned since they were more than happy to terminate the Mandate in 1948 and leave this part of the Middle East to sort itself out.