Jewish Scene
Hitler's attempt to rewrite Bible
Eldad Beck
Published: 09.08.06, 13:38
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61. Paqid 16
David Duke ,   Tupelo, Miss. USA   (08.11.06)
It is to my understanding that you will be a Key speaker at the Southern Baptist Convention being held in San Antonio, Texas in 2007. I would like to thank you for all the work that you do in the name of Christ, and by bringing his words to the savages of the Middle East. I look forward to meeting you then. I remain your brother and friend in the name of Jesus Christ, the Almighty God of the world. Sincerely, David Duke, former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
62. #13-Our resident Christian Missionary!
Arie ,   Afula   (08.11.06)
You are an Orthodox Jew as much as hitler and Queen Isabell of Spain. Why are you so ashamed to admit who and what you REALLY are - a CHRISTIAN. What a waste of carbon matter you are. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/christian
63. to Paqid
Alban ,   Montgomery, AL   (08.11.06)
You say that Jesus was a false Messiah and anti-Torah. You say the Torah is the only real scripture and the NT is irrelevant. You say that a Christian’s idea of sin is nebulous or based upon interpretation. Let’s look at all those, relying mostly on the Old Testament. 1. Jesus a false Messiah? The Book of Isaiah identifies the Messiah as the man of sorrows (Isaiah 53:3). This was later confirmed to be Jesus (Acts 8:27-35). According to Isaiah, the Messiah will be cut off and have no children (Isaiah 53:8). So we know the Messiah has to be executed for our sins. Daniel 9:25-26 tells us when that happens. It is 69 (7+62) “weeks” (seven year periods) after the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem (recorded in the Book of Nehemiah). So that would be 483 years later. If you add that up using the Hebrew calendar, you will see the Messiah executed in March of 33 AD. That was when Jesus died on the cross. If Jesus was a false Messiah, please tell me who the real one was. BTW, if you go to rabbi college, they specifically forbid you from trying to add up those weeks in Daniel because they know what the answer will be. Others have denounced the Book of Daniel because it is “too accurate” so it must have been made after Christ. If so, then you have to throw out the Book of Ezekiel too because God counts Daniel among Noah and Job (Ezekiel 14:14). 2. The Pharisees accused Jesus of being anti-Torah. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus told them His intention was not to destroy the Law (of Moses) but to fulfill it. He fulfilled many prophecies of the Old Testament, too numerous to list here. But you can start with Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. 3. In the days of Paul (formerly Saul of Tarsus), there was no New Testament yet. So Paul preached Jesus using the Torah (Acts 28:23). The entire Old Testament pointed forward to Jesus. 4. The New Testament is irrelevant? No. It contains the Gospel. It is the means by which God chose to spread His word to all the nations. In Psalm 22:27, David prophesied that all the nations should worship the Lord. This didn’t happen in the days of David. The Jews didn’t send missionaries out to spread God’s Word to the heathen. It happened in the New Testament. In Acts 1:8, God promises to give them power of the Holy Ghost to spread God’s Word throughout the world. It happened back then and is still happening today. There is not one country where God’s Word (Old and New Testament) is not preached, calling sinners to repentance. 5. Sin. Let’s be clear about sin. That which defies God is sin. The Torah lists so very many sins that nobody can keep all of God’s commandments. Psalm 14 says there is none that doeth good, no not one. This is repeated in the New Testament. Matthew 19:17 says there is none good but one, that is God. Romans 3:23 says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. If you confess your sins to God, He will forgive them, but if you say you’re not a sinner then you are trying to make God a liar (1 John 9-10), which really makes you the liar. All sin is despicable abomination in the eyes of God. Under Grace, it is the Holy Spirit Himself working in you. This is God. When you submit to God and do exactly what He directs, there is no sin. A Christian must learn how to submit himself to the Holy Spirit. Doing this is an act of obedience and leads to spiritual growth. Resisting the Holy Spirit takes you out of God’s will. If He wants you in Peoria, what are you doing in Chicago? You don’t have to understand why He wants you in Peoria. Your job is to trust and obey. One thing you left out was atonement for sin. Christians have forgiveness but Jews don’t. Where is the Ark of the Testament? Where are the priests and Levites sacrificing animals for the sins of the people? Jews themselves are not practicing the Law, yet you criticize Christians for the same. Christ is my blood sacrifice. Where is yours?
64. PAQID
Connie ,   VA, USA   (08.11.06)
These are the verses that come to my mind about your theology. Galations 3:1-5. Oh, foolish Galations! What magician has cast an evil spell on you? For you used to see the meaning of JesusChrist's death as clearly as though I had shown you a signboard with a picture of Christ dying on the cross. Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the law? Of course not, for the Holy Spirit came upon you only after you believed the message you heard about Christ. Have you lost your senses? After starting your christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? You have suffered so much for the Good News. Surely it was not in vain, was it? Are you now going to just throw it all away?
65. #63..remember what #30 said
jason ,   usa   (08.11.06)
to #63 " Christians have forgiveness but Jews don’t. " so i'm guessing that hitler was "frogive" and same with the KKK ============ from #30 Any Christian who actually reads the Bible will see that we are supposed to bless the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, never curse them. God didn’t forget about the Jews (Isaiah 49:14-16). The Christians didn’t replace the Jews as God’s chosen people saying that the jewish people above of #30 quote dosnt have recive a place in haven for following G-D whats the point for them living ? is it true without them the new bible wouldnt come true and blamming them for somthing like this is right?
66. #63
jason ,   usa   (08.11.06)
" One thing you left out was atonement for sin. Christians have forgiveness but Jews don’t. Where is the Ark of the Testament? Where are the priests and Levites sacrificing animals for the sins of the people? Jews themselves are not practicing the Law, yet you criticize Christians for the same. Christ is my blood sacrifice. Where is yours? " your saying that christians are the new chosen people? not the jews? from #30 quote 8. Any Christian who actually reads the Bible will see that we are supposed to bless the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, never curse them. God didn’t forget about the Jews (Isaiah 49:14-16). The Christians didn’t replace the Jews as God’s chosen people. Christians are the wild olive branch grafted in among the original branches to bear fruit (Romans 11:16-21). When the Church Age is over, God will graft the original branches (the Jews) back in. life has so many anwsers and we havnt got it all and is FULL of mysterys
67. Alban, Montgomery, AL (#63)
Paqid 16, Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (08.11.06)
"You say..." No, Torah says! If Isa. 53 or Dan. 9 speaks of the 1st-century Torah-teaching Ribi Yehoshua then it absolutely cannot refer to his Roman Hellenist counterfeit - antinomian, supersessionist J*esus, which contradicts Torah. The two polar opposites cannot merge. They are mutually exclusive and unconnected. This also answers your question as to who is the real Mashiakh. "Acts" is NT and irrelevant. Isa. 53 says nothing about having no children. The date of the crucifixion is proven to have been the 20th of Nisan, 3790 - which is neither the year 33 nor the month of March. Read some scholarly sources instead of popular folklore. Further, "AD" and "Old Testament" beyond being logical fallacies - petitio principii, begging the question - is insulting. The year is most certainly NOT "AD" and Torah has NOT been superseded!!! If you can't adhere to logic you could at least not be insulting. You have no clue what is taught in "rabbi college." Since J*esus, the antinomian Hellenist counterfeit, wasn't concocted by the Roman Hellenists until after 135 C.E. it is anachronistic to argue that 1st-century Pharisees accused "J*esus" of anything. You forget that Ribi Yehoshua WAS a Pharisee - Ribi - hello-o-o. There is nothing unusual about arguments among Torah-keeping Jews concerning whether something is allowed or prohibited by Torah. That goes on among Pharisees (today's Orthodox) all of the time. You began saying you weren't going to use the NT, but you cannot defend Christianity without citing "Acts" and "Matthew," neither of which were ever accepted by Ribi Yehoshua or his original Jewish followers, the Netzarim. Greek - Hellenist, hello-o-o - "St. Matthew" isn't Hebrew Matityahu. (The Netzarim didn't even regard Hebrew Matityahu as Scripture, only as a reliable account of the teachings of Ribi Yehoshua. They only accepted Torah as Scripture. We still do.) So your reference to the NT has no merit. Your earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius, documented that the original Jewish followers of Ribi Yehoshua, the Netzarim, excised Paul as an apostate. You keep citing pagan Roman Hellenist sources that have no merit for your beliefs. Worshipping a pagan Hellenist Roman idol contrary to Torah and presuming to supersede Torah is displacement theology idolatry, not worshipping the Almighty OF ISRAEL, not gentiles, described in Torah. Nothing defies God more than contradicting, superseding and displacing Torah. Your idol, J*esus, is described in Dan. 7.25. Then you're back to your irrelevant pagan Hellenist Roman NT again because Christianity has no connection to Ribi Yehoshua or Judaism and cannot be defended from Torah. You just can't get that and keep spouting Hellenism. Submitting to idolatry, as you are, is the opposite of submitting to God. Any spirit that contradicts Torah is a demonic and satanic spirit. I spoke of kipur. Learn to read English. Then learn to read Hebrew. Then maybe you can think of something with some merit. "Christians have forgiveness but Jews don’t." ??? In fact, Jews who do their utmost to keep Torah, and make teshuvah for shortcomings, have kipur and forgiveness, which Torah stipulates is the ONLY way to obtain kipur and forgiveness. Further, Torah explicitly prohibits the addition of any other condition. There are MANY Jews who are doing their utmost to keep Torah. There is NO Christian doing his or her utmost to keep Torah; not one, nor has there ever been. This is my, and other Jews', kipur and place in the world to come, guaranteed in Torah by the Unchanging ha-Sheim.Torah is also absolutely crystal clear that those who don't take this way, and only this way, don't obtain kipur or forgiveness. It is Christians who have no forgiveness and this is reconfirmed in Prov. 28.9!!! Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
68. To Michael A Gold in El Paso
Shiksa ,   California   (08.11.06)
Hello, Michael, As a Protestant, I must say that I feel great shame that many of the sayings of Martin Luther sound like they could have come from the mouth of Hitler. As for the Presbyterians (my denomination) I just want you to know that it is a denomination with a leadership very much out of step with the rank-and-file members. We have made ourselves heard over the meeting with Hezbollah, and also over the Presbyterian church wanting to divest from Israeli business, so please take heart in knowing that Presbyterians are fighting this from within. Judge us all individually, please! I'm really sorry to hear your dealings with Christians have not been pleasant ones. I am very sad to say that what you say is based on reality. Please remember, though, that we're not all alike, and judge each of us individually. Best wishes!!
69. To David Levi in Burbank
Shiksa ,   California   (08.11.06)
What were the Germans really like? Well, they brought Hitler to power, so that is saying something. He made no secret of his anti-semitism. He was always clear about that. Have you read "Hitler's Willing Executioners?" If not, give it a read (though I must say it was so upsetting that I could not finish it.) It certainly supports your feelings about about Germans from back then being evil incarnate. David, having said the above, i ask you not to judge today's Germans harshly. Most of them are good people. They had nothing to do with Hitler. In fact, they have learned from history. Not all of them have, but many.
70. To Paqid 67 - Daniel
Alban ,   Montgomery, AL   (08.11.06)
YOU SAY that Daniel 7:25 is a prophetic warning about Jesus. The Beast (commonly called the Antichrist) of Revelation will rule the world for seven years of Great Tribulation. This seven years is divided into two halves of 3.5 years each. This is a distinction both in Daniel and Revelation, which are both in agreement. Daniel is clearly talking about the Beast of Revelation (Daniel calls him the 4th Beast). He’s not talking about Jesus. Time (one year), times (two years), and half a time (one half year). That’s 3.5 years. If Jesus is evil, then this evil has existed for about 2000 years, not three and a half years. Your time scale is way off. Daniel 7:25 [25] And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. So there is a distinction between what you say and what Scripture says. Need more proof? Read on. Daniel 7:25 is not a prophecy of Jesus, but an End Times prophecy. Just before it we see the Beast (4th Beast) subduing three kings. Jesus never subdued three kings, nor did He establish His own earthly kingdom, nor devoured and broken the whole earth. These are events that have not yet happened. Daniel 7:23-24 [23] Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. [24] And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
71. To Paqid 67 - blood and sin
Alban ,   Montgomery, AL   (08.11.06)
You still never told me how you can deal with sins. Just don’t commit sins? Not possible. Psalm 14 says there is nobody doing good, no not one. You and I are both sinners and you know it. We must account for our sins to a Holy God. Jesus Christ is my blood sacrifice. Hebrews 9:12-13 [12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. [13] For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: [14] How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? All throughout the OT, there were blood sacrifices, pointing the way to Christ. God slew animals to cover Adam and Eve with skins. Fig leaves wouldn’t do it because there was no blood involved. Moses commanded the Israelites to use the blood of the lamb (hint hint) to protect them from death on the Passover. Abraham was even prepared to sacrifice his only son on Mount Moriah (in what would later become Jerusalem) as a picture of God later sacrificing His only Son on a mountain in Jerusalem, possibly the same location. The OT points directly to Christ. Without Christ, you do not have an eternal sacrifice. OK, that’s “irrelevant” to you. So let’s look at the Torah. Moses commanded a blood sacrifice to atone for sin. You must do this once a year throughout your generations. Are you doing this? If not then you have not done “your utmost to uphold Torah”. Exodus 30:10 [10] And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD. It is the blood that makes atonement for your soul. This is from the Torah. Are you going to argue against it or uphold it? Leviticus 17:11 [11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. This agrees with the “irrelevant” NT. The NT doesn’t contradict it. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. Matthew 26:28 [28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Hebrews 9:22 [22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Much of the Book of Leviticus is dedicated to the shedding of blood. The priests (sons of Aaron) were in charge of the sacrifices. Blood, blood, blood! Are these sacrifices being done today? Do you even know who Aaron’s descendants are today? Have you tried to locate them? The blood sacrifices are absolutely essential to the Hebrew life according to the Torah. And yet you say you do your utmost to uphold the Torah. I don’t see how this is possible. Again, I must ask you: Where is your blood sacrifice to God? I have mine. Where is yours?
72. RE:# 68 and # 69 Shiksa
Michael A. Gold ,   El Paso, Tx,   (08.12.06)
I have met only a handful of Christians that are worth merit. Once you have been subjected to both oral and physical violence by so called Christians, because of race, ethnic background, and/or religion, most people including myself are very wary of the motives of all Christians. Recently it has been seen here in the US with the so-called "Immigration Problem" of the Hispanics. Most of these Hispanics are Christians and most of the White Supremist consider themselves to be Christian as well. Yet these WASP don't want "wetbacks" in this country. Hitler had people who were Lutherans killed because they had a Jewish grandparent. Hitler believed as Luther did, " A Jew is like a dog who always returns to it's vomit" Only 2 American Christians are honored at Yad Vashem, why only 2? Google Yad Vashem for more info. It is virtually impossible to judge Christians individually when the majority hate Jews. Even FDR is rumored to have been a member of the KKK. Henry Ford gave Hitler money as did Chase Bank of NY. Very few Christian Germans helped Jews during WWII, most were very happy to get rid of Jews. Just like now how many Christians support Israel? Very few. Remember there are MANY, MANY Christians that live in Israel. The US and UK have done nothing to enforce UN Res. 1559, instead the US and UK went to Iraq. Even Canada refused to accept Jews prior and post WWII. Unfortunately bad history repeats itself more often than good history. I wish you well in your endeavors to show that not all Christians are bad. Sadly you are in the minority. Shalom Alachem-Peace Unto You
73. #71...alban
jason ,   usa   (08.12.06)
what i'm not getting is that... you say this " Any Christian who actually reads the Bible will see that we are supposed to bless the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, never curse them. God didn’t forget about the Jews (Isaiah 49:14-16). The Christians didn’t replace the Jews as God’s chosen people. Christians are the wild olive branch grafted in among the original branches to bear fruit (Romans 11:16-21). When the Church Age is over, God will graft the original branches (the Jews) back in. 9. God is not done with Israel. Read through the Book of Revelation and you will see God preserving Israel throughout the upcoming Great Tribulation. And at the Battle of Armageddon (also known as the Day of the Lord throughout the Bible), Jesus Christ Himself will come down and destroy the armies of the world as they try to destroy Israel. Read the Book of Zephaniah to see the aftermath of the Day of the Lord. As far as we know, only a handful of hidden Jews will survive – a small remnant. Everyone else is dead. God will return to them a pure language and they will repopulate the world during the Millennium. God has NOT washed His hands of the Jews, as some might think. " after that you then say " One thing you left out was atonement for sin. Christians have forgiveness but Jews don’t. Where is the Ark of the Testament? Where are the priests and Levites sacrificing animals for the sins of the people? Jews themselves are not practicing the Law, yet you criticize Christians for the same. Christ is my blood sacrifice. Where is yours? " ====== which one is true? the 1st or the 2nd? there both from the bible but not the same
74. Paqid : I believe in Yeshua
Marcel Abel ,   (France)   (08.12.06)
Yesterday I made a response which has not been published. " I believe G-ds Spirit (the Ruach HaKodesh) has drawn you (You it's me, Marcel Abel) to this information. I pray that you will continue your examination of the evidences of the Messiahship of Jesus. And remember the words of Yeshua, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Paqid, perhaps Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah, is standing at the door of your heart right now! Consider Him! Open the door and allow Him to come into you! " Please try to hear His voice amid roaring lions! If I may simply cite James (I'm afraid he is not relevant to you along with all NT) ? « Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up. « Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor ? » And « Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins. » James 4 :10-12 ; 17
75. To all Real Christians
Michael A Gold ,   EL Paso, Tx   (08.12.06)
Please leave Paqid Yirmeyahu alone. Paqid is a wolf in sheeps' clothing. Paqid has documentation concerning conversion. But he did NOT in his heart convert to Judaism. All Paqid is doing is trying to incite more hatred toward the Jewish people. Paqid was and always will be a Christian in his heart. If you Christians will notice all the real Jews from all the other talkbacks denounce Paqid for the Charlatan he is. He is only doing to Christians what Hitler did to the Germans against the Jews. Paqid in no way, no shape, nor form represents Judaism or the Jewish People any where in the world!
76. Michael A Gold , EL Paso, Tx
Marcel Abel ,   (France)   (08.12.06)
Thank you Michael ! Paqid is not a "Christian in his heart ". All true Christians love Jewish people and their beautiful, sanctuary country where the Lord chose to be. Your site is one of the best sites in the world and that's the reason why a number of Christians (all denominations) visit it not for " preaching " their faith but to share with those who want to, especially through tragical times. The Lord bless you all.
77. somewhere I can understand from jirmejahu
schulz ,   bad germany   (08.12.06)
.. but because not all things? because every people understand, that believers, jews, are not hellenist, are not romans and also thora or prophetics words or other holy criptures are written by spirit under god, holy spirit, RuachHaKodesch. God is ethernity, God is almighty, God ist progressiv, new Creator and forever had he mad forgivness. Whoever David written at tehillim. But I am thinking, it is not good, to strike against people in this problems. God had made heaven and earth, God had made Israel as picture of his glory! And so I am understanding Jehoshua, Mashiach, many truth. I am knowing, many writer, many people had nether learned to read the thora, to read any holy scripture, to be free at this holy way of God. But this is sin of churches, this is sin of states against jews! And so I am understandig history! I am looking out for new jews, yes, for holy righteness made by God! And I am see, that many jews take it by God. Better than christians. But I will not striking against non-learning-people or "only my church have God". Not words but acts, but working will God judge. God are spirit and God is looking out to people for praying into spirit and truth written by his holy words. I will obey at heart of God.
78. Alban , Montgomery, AL
Marcel Abel ,   (France)   (08.12.06)
Thank you for your remarkable post. If I may add something beautifully recalled by Sister Dorothea : « The paganism and syncretism - a sign of spiritual perversion and apostasy, which, so saddening for true followers of Jesus, crept into the churches, you find in Judaism as well, just in other forms. This is why we all - Jews and Non-Jews, each in their part, - have to seek spiritual renewal by going to the very roots of what the LORD said and meant. Which divine grace whenever we have such opportunity. Let us make use of it as the Spirit of God knocks at our hearts' doors! »
79. Arie in Afula
(08.13.06)
You call a man who advocates attendance at established orthodox batei knesset, non-selective Torah observance, and submission to established batei din a Christian? Who lacks intelligence? I think it's you! You are so foolish and ignorant you would call Ramba"m a Christian, ח”ו! Truth is, Paqid Ben-David teaches only things that are in accordance with halakha. I challenge you to find anything that does not conform to halakha in his teachings.
80. Netzarim teach non-selective Torah observance!
William Haworth ,   West Vancouver   (08.13.06)
The attitude faced by a group known as the נצרים is all too common everywhere in human discourse: people make snap judgements about issues without learning the facts involved, and when presented with the facts, refuse to believe them out of what can only be arrogance (which is, essentially, fear). This is the attitude conservatives face when dealing with liberals, and the problem creating the current inability of the State of Israel (and the West) to defeat its Islamo-fascist enemies. This is the attitude which enabled Christianity and Islam and other non-Torah religions to develop. And, sadly, it's the attitude which anti-missionary groups appear to take towards the נצרים. I use the word "sadly" because, while these groups are well-intentioned in protecting יהודים from apostasy, they ignore the benefit re-integrating the historical ריבי יהושע into normative Torah-observant Judaism presents. Modern secular scholarship has determined and accepted that ריבי יהושע was a Torah-observant Jew who preached non-selective Torah-observance. This is not some outlandish claim that is only held by a select few religious figures. One need only look at the voluminous and widely-accepted oeuvres of scholars like Bart Ehrman, Bruce Chilton, E. P. Sanders, and even Jacob Neusner. These men researched and wrote, and still research and write at well-known universities, including Bard College, Duke University, and Brown University. They are published by well-respected academic publishers. E. P. Sanders, author of the widely-acclaimed and prize-winning (as the best book on its subject matter published in the 1980s) Jesus and Palestinian Judaism, was awarded an honorary doctorate by Oxford University. So, when פקיד ירמיהו בן דוד writes that ריבי יהושע was a Torah-observant Jew who preached non-selective Torah-observance and that everyone on earth should emulate him, and anti-missionaries state that the נצרים teach the complete opposite and that ריבי יהושע is the same as Jesus, the anti-missionaries' argument is not with the נצרים alone, but also with an awesome amount of secular brainpower as well. The anti-missionary characterization can only be described as anti-intellectual. When they subsequently accuse Christianity and "Messianic Jewish" groups of being anti-intellectual, they go beyond anti-intellectualism and become hypocritical. The benefit to Orthodox Judaism and its anti-missionaries of re-integrating the historical ריבי יהושע into normative Torah-observant Judaism is avoidance of hypocritical anti-intellectual argumentation. Additionally, it is to gain the unhypocritical use of the intellectual work of those secular scholars to bolster their case against belief in an anomian or even anti-nomian Jesus. One must ask what anti-missionaries are so afraid of in the נצרים. Is it a scrupulous adherence to the logical pursuit of religious truth? Is it that the נצרים preach non-selective Torah observance to the whole world? Is it that the נצרים, like רמב”ם, accept that one must investigate what one is taught, reject what is illogical and accept what is logical, trusting that 'ה is deliberate and not capricious? All the הסכמות in the world will not satisfy those who reject logic (after all, the נצרים have one from a ראשון לציון, and it has not served to quiet anti-intellectual mockers—about which 'תהילים א has something to say).
81. RE: # 79
Frank Dorado ,   Baton Rouge, La   (08.13.06)
Clint Van Nest and Albert Mohler are very good friends from the 80's in Florida, USA. Both are Southern Baptist. The SBC will go to any lengths to convert Jews to Christianity. The TRUTH is Paqid Ben David aka C. Van Nest will always be a Southern Baptist in his heart . BTW Paqid , Chicken Gumbo is delicious and Kosher. What #75 said is also the TRUTH about Paqid.
82. What objections from halakha to Netzarim?
William Haworth ,   West Vancouver   (08.13.06)
You can't come up with any halakhic objections to Netzarim teachings so you cast aspersions on his person. That is contrary to 420.38 חשן משפט: If a man taunts his neighbor by saying: “I am not an apostate,” “I am not a criminal,” even if he did not add “like you” it is as if he added “like you.” If he said: “You behave like a bastard” or “You are like a bastard,” it is nothing. But some authorities disagree, holding that if he said “You are like a bastard” it is as if he had said: “You are a bastard.” [. . .] If a man calls his neighbor a slave or a bastard and it is true, he is not culpable. But if the matter cannot be determined, even though he heard others speak in this way, he cannot be exonerated. Also, it is a serious offence against halakha to remind a ger of his past, especially in this case when he now practices and teaches non-selective Torah observance. If you can come up with real proof that the Netzarim are against halakha, from halakhic sources, then do so. Otherwise I'll assume your complaint is merely emotional.
83. jason #71 (part1)
Alban ,   Montgomery, AL   (08.13.06)
Both sides of that are true. It’s a sad irony, but the vast majority of Jews do not accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. Jesus came for the Jews and the Jews rejected Him. This is all through the Gospels and the NT. John 1:11 says His own (Jews) received Him not 1 Cor 1:23 calls Jesus a stumbling block to the Jews Much of Leviticus deals with animal sacrifice. Not only do the Jews not accept Jesus, but they are not even sacrificing the animals, as commanded by Moses. You can’t honestly say that Jews practice their own religion. It’s simply not being done. To claim that they do their utmost to follow the Torah is self-deception. They are leaving out major portions. Therefore, they are not following the Law, nor are they saved under Grace. If you never commit a crime all your life, but then suddenly murder one person, they will still arrest you for it and maybe execute you. The Law of Moses is like that, but without the “maybe”. If you transgress in one part of the Law, you have violated the Law. When you lie or steal, it won’t help if you never once coveted your neighbor’s wife. You are now a sinner. The soul that sinneth, it shall die (Ezek 18:4). [4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. If you are a sinner (and you are), then you need a Savior. If you don’t have a Savior who is willing to die for you, then you must die for your own sins. Isaiah 49 prophesies God sending His Holy One (Jesus) to Israel and they abhor Him (v 6). As a result, God recruits the Gentiles (v 22). [22] Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. You see, God knew Jesus would be slain in eternity past. Rev 13:8 calls Jesus the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. God had the cross in mind before He created Adam. 1 John 5:12 makes it very clear that Jesus is the dividing line between life and death. [12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Compare to John 14:6. [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
84. jason #73 (part2)
Alban ,   Montgomery, AL   (08.13.06)
In Luke 13:34, Jesus laments the fact that the Jews not only reject Him, but killed so many of God’s prophets. [34] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Once Jesus started His ministry, He never left the confines of King David’s realm. He spent most of His time in Judea but sometimes went to Samaria (upper kingdom). He preached to the Jews and considered the Gentiles to be dogs. Matt 15:25 [25] Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. [26] But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. But 1 Cor 12:13 says that we are all baptized into the same body (of Christ). Once you are saved, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. Your spiritual position becomes much more important than your bloodline. The Jews are still the chosen race. Christians would get no blessings at all if not for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Right now, most Jews are lost, for the sole reason that they reject Jesus. They want a different Messiah, and there isn’t one. As I showed in #63, the Messiah would be executed in 33 AD. I’ve added those numbers myself. They come out to the week at least. I’ll assume God made them come out to the day. If Jesus wasn’t the Messiah, then who was? There simply is nobody else. If you don’t like Jesus, then tough! He’s the only Messiah you’re ever getting. But the time will come when God revives His chosen people. Ezekiel 37 gives an amazing prophecy of the House of Israel (37:18) being nothing but dead bones. God brings them back to life. Pay particular attention to verses 13 and 14. [13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, [14] And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. In verse 14, God puts His Spirit in them. This is the Holy Ghost. When God gives you the Holy Ghost, you are saved. Notice this is an End Times prophecy because God gathers the Jews from around the world back to Israel (v 21). God is reconciling His people back to Himself. Then He appoints David (Jesus) as king over them forever (v 24-25). Summary: Most all Jews have rejected Jesus and forgotten God, but God has not forgotten them. They are still God’s chosen people, but they have not chosen His truth. Don’t curse the Jews for this. Pray for them. God still seeks vengeance on those who mistreat the Jews. And heaven is designed with gates for the 12 tribes (Rev 21). If you have any question on any of this, please ask.
85. #72
Alban ,   Montgomery, AL   (08.13.06)
Don't hold your breath waiting for someone to prove all Christians are not bad. This is true for several reasons. 1. Just because someone says he's a Christian doesn't mean he is. Matt 7:21 shows that many will even fool themselves. But they won't fool God. 2. Man has an evil sin nature. The greatest Christian ever (Paul) said there was no good thing in him (Romans 7:18). 3. You shouldn't be putting your trust in men anyway. Men will fail you. Men will abuse you. Men will secretly devide evil against you. You can't trust your fellow man. You can't even trust yourself. You can ONLY trust God. God is not like Man. Man is flawed and weak. God is perfect and strong. So stop wasting your time searching for a perfect Christian. He doesn't exist. Neither is there a perfect Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, or Atheist. And if you're looking for someone to "prove" there is such a thing, then you're just fishing for a lie. Someone might give you an answer that seems to prove it, but it could only be a lie. The Bible says you're not going to find a good man. Matthew 19:17 [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. If you keep reading the story, you will see the man try to claim that he has kept all the commandments. Jesus is not fooled. He realizes the man has money as his idol, and tells him to sell all he owns and follow Him. He was a rich man, so he just walked away from Jesus.
86. RE: # 85
Michael A Gold ,   El Paso, Tx   (08.14.06)
Please read #75 from me #81 from Frank Dorado. Albert Mohler is one of the many so called Christians that I speak off and have encountered. Albert Mohler is one of the leaders of the Southern Baptist Church. He in 2003 equated Jews to a cancerous tumor upon society. Also as # 79 Mohler and Paqid are very good friends, they both want to create hate for Jews among the Real Christians as yourself and Shiksa. When the Germans were losing at the end of WWII, Hitler was in his bunker trying figure out how to exterminate more Jews, he didn't care about the German people. He was consumed by hatred for the Jews. Mohler and Paqid are just a continuation of that theory. What you wrote about Matt. 19 is what people like Paqid, Mohler, and Hitler are. And the type of Christians that I'm speaking about.
87. alban
jason ,   usa   (08.17.06)
ok, thanks
88. #86 (part 1)
Alban ,   Montgomery, AL   (08.17.06)
This strikes me as odd. I’ve not heard of Southern Baptists being anti-Jew. At my (Fundamentalist) church, we believe the Bible. Our pastor reports to no higher earthly authority, no pontiff or group of elders somewhere. He reports only to God. He preaches the whole Bible from the perspective of the Gospel. He preaches from every Book, because all Scripture is useful (2 Tim 3:16). I’ve not met anyone with so thorough a knowledge of Scripture. I also study the Bible on my own, and use Scripture (as you’ve seen)to fight for me (really fighting for God). God’s Word is a powerhouse that is fueled by the Holy Spirit. You simply unleash it and it does the work (Hebrews 4:12). The “Sword of the Spirit” described in Ephesians 6:17 is the Word of God. But not the entire Bible at once, rather the specific verses that are required at that moment. Jesus used the Sword of the Spirit against Satan when He was tempted (Matt 4:3-11) and Satan had to depart. Notice in Matt 4:6, Satan quoted Scripture to use against Jesus. Satan knows the Bible inside and out. The one verse you are ignorant of is the place where Satan will attack from. I’ve read the Bible maybe 20-30 times (and counting). I’ve seen absolutely nothing in there that would lead any real Christian to hate the Jews. There are severe judgments against those who do harm to the Jews. You’re not even allowed to curse them. God still blesses those who bless the Jews. And I think we’re to take advantage of the offer. Need a blessing? Bless the Jews. God wants people to bless them and punishes people who curse them. Of those two choices, I will bless the Jews. That puts me in agreement with God. Genesis 27:29 (Isaac to Jacob) [29] Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee. When I see someone speaking error like Paqid, I pretty much know where he departs from Scripture. I then look it up and find the exact Bible verse to point out his error. You can have a million people agreeing on something but it’s still not worth as much as one “Thus saith the Lord”. In any given disagreement, you can rest assured that God is right about everything. He claims to be an expert, but I know Scripture. I simply don’t allow anyone to say “It’s in the Bible somewhere.” You need to show me chapter and verse. He couldn’t do it. Notice in post #67, he got confused with Daniel 7:25 claiming that was Jesus. In post #70 I exposed his error. I haven’t seen him since. Just like in Matt 4:11, Paqid had to depart once exposed to too much truth. I’m not inflexible. If you can prove me wrong with Scripture, I will learn from that and move on. I learn new things about the Bible all the time. But the “fact” that Jesus wasn’t the Messiah is not one of those things. We have been given the Gospel. There are those who seek to pervert the Gospel. We can’t allow that. We must teach, explain, and defend sound doctrine. And we must expose bad doctrine. You do that by quoting Scripture. To do that, you must know which verse to quote. And to do that, you have to study the whole Bible. The Books of the Bible aren’t stand-alone stories. They all interlock and weave together like a rug. It’s all cross-referenced.
89. #86 (part 2)
Alban ,   Montgomery, AL   (08.17.06)
I made sure to emphasize what HE SAYS (Paqid), because the Torah says Jesus is Christ. What HE SAYS and what the Torah says are two completely different things, despite his “superior understanding” of the original Hebrew. What Paqid is doing is no different than what Hitler did. He’s rejecting the real Bible and trying to make his own Bible. This is a very grave sin (Revelation 22:18-19) and I won’t be a party to it. The entire Old Testament pointed forward to the Messiah. They knew He would be born of a virgin. They knew He would be executed in March of 33 AD. Nobody else matches that description, and you might have noticed Paqid disappeared quickly when I demanded to know who the real Christ was if not Jesus. That’s because there is nobody else. There’s no “Life of Brian” guy who might have been the other Messiah but we’re just not sure. That other person simply doesn’t exist. So either Jesus is the Christ, or the entire Torah is a lie that needs to be thrown out. There is only one Jesus Christ. There is none like Him. Nobody now, then, or ever, was His equal. He is the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by Him (John 14:6). Every Christian knows Jesus and calls Him Lord. Paqid may claim to be a Southern Baptist, but if he denies Jesus, then he is not a Christian. And all his fancy Hebrew words like Netzarim and Yehosua will be of no help to him in Judgment when he realizes he rejected the one person who was willing to pay for his sins, and so now he must pay for his own sins. There is one Jesus, and one Gospel. All else is error. Jesus is the truth (John 14:6). Anything that deviates from or denies the truth must be error. Galatians 1:6-8 [6] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: [7] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. So, no. I will not believe Paqid when he claims that Jesus (no asterisk) was a concoction of 4th Century fiction writers. His claims of knowing Hebrew and reading the original manuscripts don’t impress me. Him calling the NT irrelevant only shows his true colors. I will not agree with his opinions, lest I get sucked into his curse (Gal 1:8 above). And I won’t waste my time visiting his website. Learning complicated Hebrew words is not the way to salvation. The Gospel is the way to salvation. Here is the Gospel: Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was innocent. He suffered and died for your sins on a cross. He was buried. He rose again on the third day. He’s now seated in glory in Heaven at the right hand of the Father. That’s all there is to it. Don’t complicate what God has simplified. By performing the Gospel, Jesus has conquered Satan, sin, and death. Believe on Jesus for everlasting life (John 3:16).
90. RE: # 88 & 89
Michael A. Gold ,   EL Paso, TX   (08.19.06)
I have very little knowledge of the "NT". But I am not writing to refute your words, but only to warn you, Shiksa, and other REAL Christians of the enemies of G-D. Google "Albert Mohler, Mel Gibson and AntiSemitism" this is a agnostic web site. BUT you will read the truth about Albert Mohler and the Christain Identity. I ask that you read these articles not to try to proselytize you, but so that you, youself will understand where the actual enemies of G-d are coming from. Many have given theories about Hitler, no-one has been able to really answer the question; WHY did Hitler hate the Jews so much? Once again, Paqid in NO WAY, SHAPE, or FORM represents Judaism or the Jewish people any where in the world. In Deut. 13:1 thru 13:12 G-D tell Moses to warn the Jews of Maisit, which is what Paqid is.
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