Jewish Scene
Former chief Rabbi to Bush: Don't act against God’s will
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 10.01.08, 08:54
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206 Talkbacks for this article
121. WOW! # 65 Daniel , New York
Ginette ,   Toronto, Canada   (01.13.08)
I too, when I read the talkback from Paqid Yirmәyahu "I smelled a rat"! I did not visit his site du to lack of interest but your own talkback sure opened my eyes...my oh my, those People scare me! Keren, please loosen up! M.Hartley in Atlanta is hilarious. His joke was great! I might visit the same store on my next trip to Israel this year :-)
122. Petra, You're Good!
Ginette ,   Toronto, Canada   (01.13.08)
and I agree with most of your comments :-)
123. HOW DARE RAV ELIYAH WARN BUSH...
gb ,   mtl   (01.13.08)
or better said how dare bush not follow his words!!!.... to all the anti judaism in the forum... why dont u go eat mcdonalds on yom kippour in the red light district of amsterdam... we've all had enough of you...
124. Petra
(01.13.08)
We've moved on and let the subject drop. M. Harley is off the hook. Why try to stir things up again?
125. God's will
01*12*2008 ,   Colorado Springs, Co   (01.12.08)
You will learn sooner than later there is a God, and he is in controll.
126. Israel is NOT like another European country.
Dianna and Aaron Gle ,   Colorado Springs USA   (01.12.08)
That is dead on! So very well stated!! Joseph P. , JewRusalem (01.10.08) Wow, what we or any nation could do if only we were all about and after doing God's will.
127. to # 125 , 126 and others
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.13.08)
The Shoa , also god's will ? Maybe you did loose someone and you can say god's will , i had many family members murdered i can't say it . How is it possible that Jews can speak or even think that there is a god who wills
128. Cher Ami , your # 92
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.13.08)
I was surprised by your TB . Your postwoman will have something for you one of those days . Have a nice week .
129. Error in my # 127
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.13.08)
read : maybe you did'nt loose instead of you did loose
130. # 6 Hiram an expert in Paris
Petra ,   usa   (01.13.08)
It's not your choice now, is it? Israel will do as she pleases without a frenchman trying to tell her about 'religion'. Enjoy livng amongst YOUR BROTHERS in Paris.. You're good for a laugh though. Israel cannot seperate herself from her G-d as you cannot seperate arabs from Paris.
131. Petra ,
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.13.08)
And also without a USA lady telling us how to behave . Enjoy living amongst your fanatic religious friends . Here it are , mostly , the seculars who build this NATION , my nation , not yours . And i , living here , not in the USA as you do , think also that a separation of religion and state is the best . Rabbanim have their place in the Bate Knesseth , not in THE KNESSETH .
132. We serve different G-ds
Josh   (01.13.08)
He is a worshipper of Jesus as a Messiah who said he came to make war on the world and that he was not a Messiah. We worship Hashem who either makes war on our enemies or on us, depending on whether we do Torah. Lets hope we stay on Hashem's good side.
133. Dear Charles
Abel Shoni ,   France   (01.13.08)
You probably meant my post # 95 in response to # 92. I agree with your last post to Petra. As you know it well, we call it "Séparation des Églises et de l'État" since the 1905 law. Question to chief Rabbi : The Pope asked one day : where was God during the holocaust ? Nobody tried to answer seriously, no chief Rabbis, no Evangelicals, not many Catholics, but many who use to make their business in the religious bazaar (like Josh, Paqid and a few other cheaters giving inappropriate answers). Who are the righteous people who tried to answer the Pope's simple question ? Nobody or quasi the same. Now I am sure it could have not been God's plan, a plan by the God of love ? If he did something, it was certainly not to save so many innocent people, among them women and children, yes little innocent children. Satan's plan infinitely more than God' plan. Well, you may be right, cher Charles, both - God and Satan, Shaitan for Muslims - could be the fruit of our poor human brains overpowered by some existential fear connected with our human "condition". (Quand j'ouvre les yeux et que je vois la détresse de ce monde, je me demande si tout n'est pas le fruit du hasard et de la nécessité - titre de l'ouvrage d'un grand chercheur français. Professeur à la retraite, que sais-je, rien, absolument rien, si, je dois mourir. Je m'appuyais sur ma foi, elle vacille et pas même à la manière des mystiques qui parlent de la nuit de la foi. Alors il me reste à trouver un support inattaquable, une relation à l'autre tissée avec notre présent, tour à tour sombre et lumineux, tragique et comique, désespérant et réconfortant, laid et beau, et non construit sur l'ambivalence éternelle haine/amour. Rien de nouveau. Tout est à reconstruire, l'homme est à revoir et à corriger, loin des fausses certitudes. D'ailleurs qu'importe, puisque chacun de nous a rendez-vous avec lui-même, dans son néant infini. Seigneur, si tu existes, envoie-nous des signes clairs, déchiffrables et plus des énigmes (When I open my eyes and I see the distress of this world, I wonder if it is not the pure product of chance and necessity - title of a book by a great French researcher and philosoph. Professor at retirement, what do i know ? Nothing, absolutely nothing, except I must die. I would lean on my faith, it's now vacillating and not even in the manner of mystics who talk about the night of faith. So it remains for me to find an unassailable, a relationship to the other, woven with our present, alternately dark and light, comic and tragic, heartbreaking and heartening, ugly and beautiful, not built on the eternal ambivalence hatred / love. Nothing new. Everything must be rebuilt, man is to be reviewed and corrected, far from the false certainties. And what difference does it make, since each of us has a rendezvous with himself, in his infinite nothingness. Lord, if you exist, send us clear signs, and no more undecipherable riddles). Dear Charles, have a nice week with your family and friends. I look forward to your letter.
134. Former chief Rabbi
Abel Shoni ,   France   (01.13.08)
To act against God's will, one has to know God's will. With all due respect, what you Rabbi say here is your own, human will. Nothing more. Rabbi, answer the Pope's question about God's "absence" during the Holocaust ?
135. Warning?
Chris ,   USA   (01.13.08)
It's time for everyone to stop worrying about the "state of Israel," and what their leaders, either state or religious have to say. Their threats aren't worth the parchment they are written on, because the "man-made Israel" is simply doomed to destruction. The prophecies all say the same thing. The entire world is at the point of war because of those who think God is supporting one side or the other in the fight for Jerusalem. Jerusalem gets plowed under. That's because it's not the Jerusalem of the Messiah.
136. The Rabbi is 100% correct
Stephanie ,   Ginot Shomron   (01.13.08)
I will bring only one case to point, when Israel came out of Gaza making 9000 people homeless America experienced one of the worst disaters in American history, the hurrican Katrina and the devestation she caused. If anymore Jews are forced to leave their homes there will be worse disasters for the whole world.
137. Cher Ami
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.13.08)
I will answer your tb later , personaly . Regarding God's "absence" during the Holocaust , how can people still believe after this ? Have a fine week .
138. Blackmale
J Glimmer ,   NYC USA   (01.13.08)
what is this tripe? I agree with those who have posted here saying this is ballsey to give the USA a warning as to what is Gods will? Gods will is that we do no harm to each other and live in peace side by side, the world belongs to humanity not a bunch of war mongering religous freaks
139. RE #135 - What Prophecies?
Christy ,   Boston, US   (01.14.08)
"The prophecies all say the same thing. The entire world is at the point of war because of those who think God is supporting one side or the other in the fight for Jerusalem." -- WHAT prophecies are these? The Ancient Prophets, found in both the Jewish & Christian Scriptures say NO such thing. God HAS chosen a side. That side is Israel. Jerusalem was given by G-d to the Jews long ago. It belongs to them now, as a gift from G-d. According to the Biblical prophets, Israel would be sent into Exile. We have seen this. At G-d's appointed time G-d would restore Israel to the Jews & call His people back to Israel. Some know this as The Regathering. We are witnesses to this right now. The Biblical prophets go on to say that nations WILL fight with Israel. One of the fights, at the End Of Days, G-d takes over and defeats Israel's enemies. Then we enter eternity with G-d. One good Biblical prophet to read is Ezekiel. You should be able to see events that we have seen happen, are happening & soon will be happening starting around chapter 30. G-d will reign from Jerusalem after the End Of Days. He considers Jerusalem to be His (G-d's) City. He has entrusted it ONLY to the Jews until He comes to claim it.
140. Former Chief Rabbi Clerical Garb
Christy ,   Boston, US   (01.14.08)
I like the clerical garb worn by this Former Chief rabbi. Has he always worn this, or is it something he started to wear as Chief Rabbi?
141. paqid , Shabbat is over , your answer ?
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.14.08)
Your silence only demonstrates that i'm RIGHT .
142. Answer to Petra ( USA )
Hiram ,   Paris   (01.14.08)
Poor Petra...Just because you are observant does not mean that you are enlighted by God . As I have always posted on these columns , wearing a beard , once a sign of great wisdom, has now turned to be a signe of extremisem and great intolerance. This intolerance still goes on in Israel because of the like of you. God did not create the state of Israel. It was created by the united nations at the cost of over 6.000.000 jewish lives.And if you tell me that this was done with God's blessing, it clearly means that religion did not make you mature.
143. Dear Jo 69
Hiram ,   Paris   (01.14.08)
Yes, I am fully aware of the accomplishments in the Hi tech, telecom, medecine etc... accomplished by the Israelis and you are correct of course about Arab nationalism ( a dream which will never come true would it be simply because arabs have been divided for religious reasons for centuries !!) but nevertheless a country in which only religious marriage is accepted still has a few steps to take in order to catch up with the rest. Give me the name of a country, deeply religious, in which have been achieved full democracy, economic growth, financial independance, freedom of speech , etc...... I know of none !
144. Dear Keren # 43
Hiram ,   Paris   (01.14.08)
Your language and approach of "critics" is extremely similar to that of any "religious cum observant" person. It seems that short of bringing decent arguments, people like you resource to insults, rude words and the rest of the "non-arguments" characterizing intelligence-limited people. You should accept that there are people with different opinion from yours, and that even non-atheist may have opinions in which "reason" takes over "emotion". If I was the person you described, I would not have elected to split my time and pay landtaxes in both France et Israel....and for your enlightement , please be aware that I am a regular patron of Bet Daniel in Tel Aviv and ULIF in Paris.....with a little bit of research you will find that the people I pray with are ....also Jews !!! Have a wonderful day, know-it-all PS : are you married to Joseph P by any chance ?
145. Dear Abel Shoni
Hiram ,   Paris   (01.14.08)
Found your post very adequate, very touching, and very tolerant . Cheers Hiram ( Tyr )
146. # 34 M. Hartley
Petra ,   usa   (01.14.08)
You voted for Bush a man who says he speaks to G-d and IF he hears back from G-d is that what you voted for? Just curious.
147. # 122 Ginette, Toronto, Canada
Petra ,   usa   (01.14.08)
My mother thanks you and I thank you too! If not for Momma, I'd be born a gentile.
148. # 124 Anonymus
Petra ,   usa   (01.14.08)
As we each post from other parts of the world, perhaps my timetable is not the same as yours. I felt M. Hartley needed some support, and you?
149. # 131 Charles in response
Petra ,   usa   (01.14.08)
My opinions are worth what any other posters are, what you pay for them, nothing. However, my mother did live in Jerusalem for some years as a Jew and if that counts, okay, if not okay too. As to my 'fanatic religious friends,' who are you talking about? My feeble support of Jews in Israel may be just that but, I do love her and support her. If not for the Torah and Zion, how do we each explain the state of Israel? What I'm saying is that if we throw away our religious heritage, aren't we gentiles? As for religion in politics, your right, it's YOUR problem, not mine. I'm not for Bush either who 'talks' to G-d although we all pray, if he HEARS G-d talk back to him, is that any different from the 'religious fanatics' in your country? We have our loonies, you have yours, and many are in government whether or not we vote for them here or, there. I do agree with the Rabbi and if he's in YOUR government, who voted him in? Your 'religious fanatics,' not' mine. Shalom
150.  # 142 Hiram , Paris
Petra ,   usa   (01.14.08)
If wearing a beard makes one 'observant' than, Castro,and all with beards must be zealots. Observant doesn't mean we agree on everything. It just means I keep the commandments as best I can. As for Israels birth, you forgot the original "Promise of the Promised land", made eons before the League of nations.This promise is made by our G-d, will you make His word null and void because you don't like the way Israel structures itself? Believe as you will, I shall as well. Seperation of church and state is the ideal in many ways, however, Israel is unique I'm sure we can agree.I still dont' see how either Zion or Israel can be seperated from the Torah. May I ask your credentials from Paris re: nationalism and relgion? Either we believe or, we dont. Either way, Shalom. I never claimed to be 'enlightened' by G-d, and you?
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