Collaborating with the enemy
Uri Orbach
Published: 25.07.08, 13:31
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1. Betselem, etc. should be required to fully disclose sources
Reuben ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (07.25.08)
of all funding that comes to them. They should be prosecuted for all infractions of funding laws as well as for aiding and abetting enemy
2. Agreed
Uri ,   Israel   (07.25.08)
Yes, it's best not to document human rights abuses in the territories. After all, reporting the crimes might lead to a law-and-order crackdown within the IDF.
3. The photographs or the acts
Michael ,   Haifa   (07.25.08)
Orbach writes: "Beyond the acts themselves, the images currently being circulated worldwide are giving Israel a bad name and boosting the sense that we’re abusing innocent Palestinian protestors, and that we’re the worst of nations". If the acts didn't take place, there would be no photographs nor videos
4. Afraid of the truth?
Nadav ,   Misgab   (07.25.08)
Whenever there is incidents in the territories you NEVER know what is true. Settler, Palestinians even the army, all lying. This way you can see what really happened......anybody afraid of cameras?? Speed cameras war worse *-))
5. Israeli "leftists" throws stones and molotovs at IDF weekly!
Z Lando ,   Tekoa, Israel   (07.25.08)
Every week, the left joins with the enemy to throw stones and molotov cocktails at IDF soldiers. The media has, up till now, tried not to make a story out of this. Now, if a "settler" hits an Arab, or, like this week, a soldier, the headlines begin to scream......
6. To # 2
Yitzhak ,   Bet Shemesh   (07.25.08)
Left wing Jews always call Judea and Samaria "the territories". The land belongs to Jews and always will! To call it by names which imply that it is something else is cowardly.
7. Extremists, left and right
David ,   Haifa   (07.25.08)
The rightwing extremists who attack both Palestinians and Israeli soldiers/policemen, and who make the latter's work even harder than it already is, are just as well collaborators of the other side's terrorists. But Mr Orbach won't denounce their behavior, because they belong to his own section of Israeli society, the main difference between them and him being that he happens to be a bit more moderate and much more well-spoken.
8. Heaven Forbid
Chocko ,   NY, USA   (07.25.08)
A Law and order crackdown within the IDF.... Whatever next,
9. Pretty Pathetic
Dov ,   Gush Etzion Israel   (07.25.08)
This article blaming the leftists for the damage done to Israel's image is pathetic. The damage is done when soldiers abuse people. You don't like it being shown around the world? Then make sure that soldiers have enough discipline that they don't engage in this type of stuff. Resort to provocative tours in Hebron? Oh please! Hebron is an issue of national concern. It can not be that only David Wilder is allowed to give tours to people in Hebron. The left have every right to take people there and explain their position. This is a democracy. Get used to it.
10. In Jewish law, these people are informers.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (07.25.08)
This is a special catagory of crime. I would suggest looking up what Maimonides had to say on the subject. See "Chovel u-Mazzik" - the relevent chapter is 8:10-11.
11. Israel hurts itself by not responding properly
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (07.25.08)
Why is it that every few days there's another such protest, often with the same protesters? Simple. Because Israel doesn't arrest, prosecute, and deport those involved. It's become what we used to call a "broken record": protesters clash with police and IDF, some of the latter are injured, a few arrested then promptly released. Then the process repeats at the next protest. The "foreign" elements, often members of ISM, should be arrested, deported, and put on a "list" against re-entry. The locals - Israelis and Palestinians - should sit in jail long enough to so disrupt their lives they'll think twice about the next protest.
12. to the writer !!!
dafer ,   jerusalem   (07.25.08)
but in the cases we see , its bound and blindfolded palestinians who are being shot , and shephards taking care of there cattle bieng beaten , and settlers throwing rocks at palestinians while the israeli army stands with there hands behind there backs doing nothing to protect those innocent palestinians who are not doing anything except going about there daily lives .. you have a loosing argument here and you cannot convince the world that the occupied palestinians with only stones in there hands are the agressors and those animal settlers and the army which is there to protect them are the innocent ones . remember my friend you can only convince your settler buddies and not the world with your lies....
13. Lefty Propaganda?
Eran Goldman ,   Israel   (07.25.08)
The reporter is polarising such that he seems to create a situation that the only ways to be are either with Israel against Palestinians, or with Palestinians against Israel. If leftists were to join the PFLP in their militant attacks on check points, they would be called terrorist sympathisers (or just merely terrorists). But when they stand idle and photograph the injustices practised daily against the Palestinian population, they are called collaborators. So I would like to pose a question to Uri Orbach: Is there a way, in your view, for an Israeli peacenik to interact with Palestinians within Palestine without being a self-hating, Arab-loving, traitorous collaborator/terrorist?
14. I rather think that
Inyaki ,   Bilbao, Basque   (07.25.08)
I rather think that the soldier who aimed and shot, he is the one who collaborates with the Pals propaganda, and not the NGO..
15. Fight fire with water -
Timothy Bryant   (07.25.08)
There should be a Israeli citizen's group dedicated to monitoring and filming Leftists - when they come to Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria with the goal of provoking violence, when they assault soldiers guarding the citizens of Israel at checkpoints, and when they conspire to commit treason at their group meetings. Place the focus on their violent & treasonous behavior, and create a database index on the internet to keep a public record. Know your enemy.
16. oh i get it now - the problem is not the dispicable acts,
me ,   here   (07.25.08)
it's jews working to stop it.
17. for #12 #13 and similar
Ricardo Macher ,   KarneiShomron Israel   (07.25.08)
Dear friends, Seems to be that you dont get the whole picture! We are not talking here about an ideal situation were you can discuss about legal details. This is war. Wether you like it or not this is war. Tha arabs want us out not from Yehuda and Shomron, the want us out from Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa, etc. In war the situation however you like it or not is really black and white, or you are for Israel or you are against! If you don't have the guts to fight by the arabs openly (however much we all know you do) why do you expect to be treated politely? You are traitors! You are arab lovers! You are despicable!
DAVID ,   JUDEA   (07.25.08)
Although I accept the essence of this article, what the writer does not mention is that the biggest collaborators with our enemies are Ynet and most of the other Israeli media. By constantly using terms like "west bank, settlers, rightwing extremist, occupation and other self loathing terms, the media are the main source of promoting a negative image of Israel. Besides that their is no concern for biased and sloppy reporting. Yesterday we saw again how quickly Ynet demonizes Jews living in the Shomron, while they do not even bother to get all the facts about what really happened. All through our history these self haters have been our worst enemies and have caused major suffering among us. It is time to start an organization to help these people to leave and live among the cultures they so worship.They infect us all with negativity and selfhate.
19. Learn more about this enemey HERE:
Dr. Dave ,   NYC   (07.25.08)
Stop the ISM uncovers the enemy's tactics. http://www.stoptheism.com/
20. Courageous
daat y ,   jerusalem   (07.25.08)
RIGHT TO THE POINT. The next step is they will give them arms to protect them from the'terrible' Israelis.
21. # 13 I Have a Proposal
Bill ,   US   (07.25.08)
You can take pictures of the abuses and injustices the IDF inflicts on the Arabs but why don't you also take pictures of the victims of terror within your own country and show them to the Arabs? Would that make you uncomfortable or do you just realize that those images will just make them want to start dancing and passing out candies. I would think as a self-described peacenik you would put yourself in the middle in order to resolve the conflict and not just play the 'useful idiot' for your PFLP heroes.
andrew ,   miami,fl   (07.25.08)
23. A Higher Moral Standard is Needed
Barry ,   Boston, USA   (07.25.08)
The problem is not with the pictures. The problem is that Israelis are actiing in a way inconsistent with the teachings of Judaism. It would be great if these pictures force IDF to endorce rules of conduct among its soldiers and enforce the laws of Israel on the settler population.
24. Two standards - enlisted and officer
C McCoy ,   Canada   (07.25.08)
Anywhere around the world, enlisteds tend to behave in whatever manner they feel they can get away with. Surely, the standards of the officer corps must be elevated - they must set a good example.
25. Good article....so very true
Jay3 ,   Israel   (07.25.08)
26. Jewish self-haters are the allies of Arabs.
Robert Bernier ,   Tel Aviv   (07.25.08)
A part of the Israeli intelligentsia, left oriented, is no longer confident of the nation’s right to its own Jewish identity. This has created a dangerous vacuum. In Israeli universities, revisionist historians have told corrosive lies about their country’s history, portraying it as having been born in sin. In the schools, children have not been taught Jewish history and parrot Arab disinformation instead. Israeli left oriented intellectuals would rather self-flagellate their public and "admit" sins they never committed, and furnish intellectual rationalizations for the most convoluted arguments raised by their adversaries, rather than take up their country's defense even when its conduct is beyond reproach as explained at : http://xrl.us/bi5da
27. Tripe, even by YNET standards
Chanalau, Tova ,   London, UK   (07.25.08)
Never read such nonsense in your paper before: "The fact that Jews are trying to catch the soldiers of their own country doing bad things by handing out cameras to our enemies is intolerable. After for years now leftist Israeli politicians have failed to convince us during elections that we can make true peace with our friendly neighbors, now they just try to smear us; to show us, and to show everybody, how terrible we are."
28. Andrew: Keep Christ Out of the Schools Or Else
Dave Levy ,   Burbank. CAUSA   (07.25.08)
To Andrew: first of all, there is a separation of church and state in this country. Your so-called Christians are fortunate this is NOT a Muslim country, yet. Christ would not only be disallowed in the schools (under the law) but he would be vilifed. If Jews are liberal and support civil rights, so be it. I am conservative as are most of my friends. We believe in a strong military, low taxes, conservative economics..and are McCain fans. Andrew this is a democracy my bigoted friend. Stop lumping us all in the same stew. Finally: one warning to the agitators should suffice. It's obvious they have an agenda, to harm Israel, one way or another. The solution: 25 to life for 3 felonies (assault, battery, destroying gov't property, endangering the public, creating a public nuisance, etc.). Israel's democracy is not anarchy. Protests should be restricted to "Protest zones" as in China today. To Israelis: wake up, your necks are on the line..believe me.
29. Orbach blames the victim as usual
Kim   (07.25.08)
Sorry Mr Orbach, but what is disgustingand is intolerable is that you try to blame the victim. Its your army, the supposed "most moral army" in the world who is committing illegal acts and human rights abuse. If they didn't commit illegal acts then there would be nothing to video or photograph. Stop your military committing human rights abuses and you would have nothing to worry about.
30. To #15: Timothy - You are right but .....
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (07.25.08)
Israelis being killed is always our fault. The Palestinians blow up buses and shopping malls but its our fault. The "Occupations" causes terror. No points out that before the 1967 there was terrorism against Israelis. This incident MUST be fully investigated. Today the IDF films every incident due to photographic manipulation in the past and I am sure they have the "real" tape. If the soldier did this he and his commander must be dealt with very severely. If the tape has been manipulated, well who will believe us? As for B'Tselem. They are a disgrace. I am all for Human Rights and Civil Liberties but B'Tselem is not interested in the Human Rights of Israelis. Yes, the Palestinians DO live under tremendous restrictions and the reason for this is their behavior. You cannot kill and maim Israelis and behave like nothing has happened. If B'Tselem is interested in the truth and just just in doing a fantastic PR job for those who want to destroy our country, then they should report on both sides of the coin. The only definition that I can think of for B'Tzelem is they are Jews who hate Israel and the Jewish people! I think B'Tselem should be asked why they are no campaigning for the Human Rights of our child in captivity, Gilad Shalit.
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