Opinion
They haven’t learned a thing
Noah Klieger
Published: 19.10.08, 11:47
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1. Nazis will be Nazis
Phoenix ,   Israel   (10.19.08)
What would they learn? They are sucking wet in their antisemitc hate. It is part of their genes. It is writen in their blood and brain. They are pigs.
2. 10% of the wehrmacht, 30% of the war criminals
(10.19.08)
3.  islamism and nationalism is what characetrised europe today
dovdevan ,   paris , france   (10.19.08)
on the one hand the radical islamist who hate the jews and israel and use the old antisemite cliché of the far right and on the other hand the nazi rethoric that is rising in several countries in europe !! they are joining each other against israel and jews
4. Haider
Gabriel ,   Edinburgh UK   (10.19.08)
This funeral was indeed disturbing, with soldiers toting guns as though it was a state funeral. Given the controversy surounding this man and the circumstances of his death, e.g. leaves a gay bar, drives over the speed limit and is over the alcohol level for driving, a low key funeral would have been sensible. Maybe it was suicide? Anyway, Austrians must really have Nazism in their blood.
5. did WE lear something?
yaacov ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (10.19.08)
The Israelis are the worst "Chamberlin" ever! we give all the credit to our enemies, ready to give them half of our country for what? kasams, kidnapping and terror attacks. Don't critizise other people when you aren't even approaching their level
6. haider
ami ,   israel   (10.19.08)
i fully agree with Barneia Austria has not changed it reminds me of the years of 1934 the nazis came out of theyr wholes and it did not take to long in 1938 99%have been true nazis and the top nazis have been mostly austrian
7. enough said, enough done
J. Klaber ,   R. Hasharon, Israel   (10.19.08)
Let's forget this miserable product of Nazi parents who luckily was killed without taking others with him. He was kicked out from the face of this earth with a smell of homosexuality, sexual child abuse and alcoholism. So all these second rate nazis, neo-nazis and wannabee fascists appearing at the "state" funeral can now crawl back to under the stones from where they came from. They didn't learn a thing from their not so illustrious past. But then again, we did not either, thinking that as Shoah survivors we are immune against fascism.
8. No "Far Right" in Israel??
Nancy Goldblum ,   San Francisco   (10.19.08)
No nationalistic, far-right looney tunes in Eretz Yisrael? No racism in Israel? Ask the Olim fromEthiopia,Russia,etc.. Something to think about,eh...?
9. your article; "they have not learned a thing"
robert holzberg ,   toronto, canada   (10.19.08)
before you are writing articles, you should learn a liitle bit of history, in order not to write nonsense like this. Hitler invaded Austria, afet then chancelor schuschnig. his predecessor engelbert dolfuss was murdered by the nazis, decided to hold a referendum on March 13,1938wheter Austria should unify with Germany after so much pressure was put on him by Hitler. It was very well known in Berlin that the Austrians would have struck this down with about 60 - 70 % !, so they invaded 3 days earlier. The referendum that you are refering was put in place by Hitler and was a farce ! There have been about 500.000 active Nazis in Austria in the war years, and a similar ammount of active Austrians in the resistance or Austrians that have been openly oposed to Hitler. So where have been then about 80% of the total population ? They have been there were the rest of the population of all the other countries occupied by the gremans have been ! The fact is that Austria was governed for almost 70 years prior to Hitler by Emperor Franz Joseph whos was beloved by our jewish people. In 1970 they made history by giving the jew Bruno Kreisky 3 consecutive majoritiesin parliament which was never repeated again. True, kreisky had controversial policies on the Middle East, but for a true antisemit he was unelectable never mind his position on israel ! Jews have flourished in Austria for a 1000 years until today where there is a thriving comunity, so again before you write articles, learn history ! Robert Holzberg, Toronto, Canada
10. Two European countries have not come clean since WWII
Johnny ,   Stockholm Sweden   (10.19.08)
It's Sweden and it's Austria. Both countries helped the nazis in a big way. None of the two have atoned for those sins in any way at all. Individual citizens, sure, but not the states themselves.
11. Have you ever been to Austria?
Jehan ,   Nice   (10.19.08)
Pretty mountains, beer-drinking folks, coucou clocks, male choirs, rather thick peasants on skis... Now a lost empire, a cardboard set, a tiny mid-European irrelevant, boring, poxy country. Nothing to worry or even write about...
12. #8 - SF Looney Bin
Hinda ,   SF Bay Area - USA   (10.19.08)
Let's see SF Sicko as many people are now calling it -- no longer the Baghdad of the Bay that was so well put in the years past. SF where at the SF Library on Thursday Nights - the club "Men Who Love Boys" can meet freely. SF Sicko - where Nancy Pelosi hails from and it is ok to defecate on religious institutions on religious holidays. Ummmm so why complain about a small country that has been trying to survive (despite it's current mishuganah government) for over 60 years? Tell me Ms. Goldblum do you support the bomb-belters as many in SF do? Do you want the Arafaters/Hamassvillans to win so they can march the Jews to the Sea as their various charters state? You do not condemn using American cartoon characters in teaching children how to murder Jews or "non-believers?" The list can go on and on "eh?"
13. SF leftists
Thomas ,   US-EU   (10.19.08)
San Francisco is full of self-loathing hardcore Commie Jews and pro terrorist Jewish organizations. They support the extermination of the "other" - politically incorrect Jews from their safety of that homosexual run cesspool.
14. Open letter to Noah Klinger
Andreas ,   Vienna, Austria   (10.19.08)
Dear Mr. Klinger, your uninformed and unbalanced way of portraying the funenal of Mr. Jörg Haider and the general attitude of Austrians is, well, just DISGUSTING. People like you ARE the main reason why there still is antisemitism in some parts of the world - but certainly not in Austria. I advise you to better study history before making such bold claims. It is without any doubt that 1) That there are no more Austrians who want the German Reich back than anywhere else in the world. 2) Mr. Haider was not a Nazi. He did not praise the German Reich per se, but only used their labor policies to point out flaws in Austria's labor market about two decades ago. 3) Mr. Haider has clearly distanced himself from Nazi. 4) Saying that 99.7% of Austrians said "yes" to the annexion to Germany, is an insult to every educated person. My grandfather was asked whether he wanted to "collaborate". He hesitated a few seconds, and was shot dead -in front of my mother- FOR NOT SAYING YES IMMEDIATELY. After that, nobody in my home town dared say anything, let alone NO to the question whether they wanted to collaborate with the Nazis. You are definitely among the most disgusting individuals in existence today, when it comes to distorting history. I know thousands of Austrians, but know NO Austrian who wants the Third Reich back. You,on the other hand, probaly know -or knew- only ONE Austrian, Mr. Jörg Haider. Shame on you!!!!!!!!!!!!
15. I am sad that Israel People feel this way
Stephen ,   Bern, Switzerland   (10.19.08)
First of all, what happen 70 years ago, this was not good at all and I can not even find the words for it, how your people had to suffer such a crime. Austria is not all about Mr. Haider, the Austrian Army is in Afganistan and also as a member of the European Union teaching Iraqi Policeofficers in Iraq, Austrian Army is also as (EU Battle Forces) in Kosovo, Bosnia, Tschad and the Golan-Höhen (Israel-Syria UN), so it is fair to say, Austria also does much in this World to secure peace and freedom. You have problems with the palistinians, we are not a danger to you at all, please believe me. Austrian have big problems with wrongly made Asyl- Applications of many people, lots of non Austrians in Prison for dangeres crimes and this is why people vote for Haiders party, not because the a nazis, the nazi time was the worst time in this world and I deeply hope such a crime will never happen again. I am Sorry my grandfather was a criminal, but I am not. I wish you all the best, Stephen
16. Dear friends!
Joe ,   Austria   (10.19.08)
Its only Mr. Haider, not the devil. Take a look at history and you will see the real faschismen. Mr. Haider was a nice and harmless freshman. A gentleman with many jewish friends. Dont forget this, my friends. Mr. Haider had given many money to friends in israel.
17. I can't believe what I'm reading!
Sven ,   Vienna   (10.19.08)
I can't believe what I'm reading! I am Austrian and I didn't vote for Haider, on the contrary: I always opposed him. Nonetheless this article insults me as Austrian. Haider never was strong, because Austrians "long for Hitler" (seriously, has the author ever been to Austria?!), as you suggest but because the other parties simply did a disappointing job.
18. Jörg Haider - Austria and the 3rd Reich
Michael ,   Austria   (10.19.08)
I can´t believe what I read there. You just can´t sit there in Israel, many miles away from austria and write about what we believe. Jörg Haider was a politician who said many things which weren´t very intelligent and absolutely not good; but he was there for his countrymen - he helped the people in his land and had an open ear for them. Because of that so many people came to his Funeral; and not because he was such an Nazi as you allways would suggest. He was just a beloved man - Why do you allways think, that in Austria there are only people who revere the 3rd reich? Why do you allways suppose that to us? Guys - don´t you think its time to live in the contemporary? Today its not 1940 - its 68 years later! Another 2 generations were born! 46 years lie between Adolf Hitler and my birthday - so why do you call me quasi a Nazi? Is that fair? Why do you want me, day by day, to undermine that I don´t want the 3rd Reich to come back? Why do you want me to undermine day by day that I hate the things Adolf Hitler did?
19. I can´t believe what I read there
Michael ,   Austria   (10.19.08)
@phoenix: "What would they learn? They are sucking wet in their antisemitc hate. It is part of their genes. It is writen in their blood and brain. They are pigs." I just can´t believe how much hate you have deep inside you! It should be a part of my genes that I should be antisemitic? You call me a pig even never having been to Austria and never having met me? Something should be written in my blood? For me thats the same crazy shit Adolf Hitler always was speaking about - JUST THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU´RE WRITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20. This article is a disgrace
Stephan ,   Vienna, Austria   (10.19.08)
After reading this disgrace of an article, I cannot just ignore this insult because it has deeply offended me as an Austrian. I have always been critical of Haider. I strongly disagree with his political views, thats why I voted The Green Party. It is also short-sighted to look at these election results and just blindly state that Austrians want the Nazis back. Their is a simple reason for the results of these elections: protest. The 1.5 years of the Great Coalition were a disaster and the two parties lost the trust of their voters. People voted the right-wing because they protested against these two parties; against another Great Coalition. It is simply not true that the people of Austria have become Nazis. That is ludicrous. Haider was a controversial figure and he polarised in Austrian politics. He introduced a new style of politics and changed the political landscape in Austria. By no means am I trying to defend him but this whole situation has to be put into perspective. As a long-time Governor of Carthinia, he has changed it as well and if Carthinians want to pay their respects they should be allowed to do so. I also believe that this hype can be compared to Princess Dianas death and that this hype will pass. Also, the "Nazis" make up a very small percentile of the population, and Mr. Klieger, you would have realised this if you had visited Austria and interacted with its people. So, Mr. Klieger, I honestly hope that before you write your next "article" that you do your research instead of insulting a whole country.
21. Austria
Verena ,   Viena, Austria   (10.19.08)
Austria has a strange history. For a long time the world and we ourselves saw us as the first victim of Germany. My generation knows that this isn't true and that we have been actors. But we see our grandmothers and grandfathers and we have to cope with the fact, that some of them are responsible for the most horrible crime in the history of men. And still all this is part of Austrian history and part of ourselves. We still have a lot to discuss and to talk about, but it's a long and hurtful process. (And I also have to say, that it's not true that 99,9 percent of the population supported Germany. And that thousands of Austrians have been arrested immediatly after the invasion of the Germans, because they knew, that they won't support them.) After the last election we can't negate, that there is a lot of racist potential in Austria. Some of us saw that before this election others didn't. But there are also a lot of people, who try to work against this potential. And I don't believe that Austria has a big problem with anti-Semitism in the moment (but for sure there are still a lot of prejudices), but with anti-Islamism. And I really don't want to offend somone, but I think that some Israelian people tend to this view too. And that this problem is a world wide phenomenon. It's definitly true that Haider hasn't deserved a funeral like that. 25.000 people attended to this funeral. But there are also 8.000.000 Austrians who didn't. And I hope that everyone of you can see that the world isn't black and white, and that there are a lot of people in Austria, who don't think that Haider was a good politician and who try to destroy the hate.
22. Nazis will be nazis ?
Franz ,   Vienna ,Austria   (10.19.08)
Austria has 8 millions inhabitants. 25 thousand joined the funeral-Event(...) hundreds of journalists from different countries of the world - for sure more than WW2 veterans. Haider was a star in carinthia , because he was lavish to the poor people and families. thats why he earned 38,5 % at the last elections. In Vienna his BZÖ-Party was at about 4,7 % - voter participation 70 %!!! i am living in Vienna - 2nd district ( jewish quarter ). I see the orthodox jewish coommunity growing and growing. if this would be still a nazi state - the people would not be here anymore. i recommend all people of israel to come to austria and have a look at a free, peaceful country. Shalom !
23. Austria and Israel united
berlonski ,   Berlin   (10.19.08)
In Austria too many do not want to see the indeed very dark sides of this egomanic, hateful politician. And in Israel Haider is used to refresh all thesse old simplistic mantras, like Noah Klieger does. Both types of Haider addicts make him just bigger. Austria and Israel united. Congratulations!
24. articel "They haven’t learned a thing"
thomas urbanek ,   austria   (10.19.08)
Dear Sirs I´m citizen of austria and I really have to tell you that I feel hurt, by this articel. Excepted of perhaps some people, nobody in austria want´s a comeback of something similar to "3rd Reich". You will also find no people or newspapers with compareable aggressive articels against Isreal, as your magazine do against austrian people. I would kindly ask you to public a correction involving respect to our people! P.S: We have learned about the history - it´s time for you to learn about too and to finish any aggression in general. By the way: The jewish people have been victim 70 years ago, and I feel absolutely sorry!!!!! about this - but you are not victim nowadays!! yours sincerly thomas urbanek
25. Noah Klieger and Israel haven't learned a thing!
Wolfgang ,   Vienna, Austria   (10.19.08)
I want to add the following remarks: (1) Noah Klieder writes that "many Austrians have proven yet again that they have not changed. They have proven that they have not learned a thing, and that they do not wish to learn or to change" What exactly have they "proven" and to whom? Noah Klinger makes a generalisation about the Austrian people that is unspecific, unfair and not based on facts or known statistics. What was he thinking making such offending generalisations? (2) Noah Klieder writes "the man who on more than one occasion praised his countryman, the fuehrer of the German Reich" This is a straight lie! Just not true. Haider never praised Hitler. Never. Ever (he would likely have gone to prison for that). What is true is that in 1991 Haider used the example of "proper labor policies" in the Third Reich to point out flaws in Austria's labor market in the early 1990s. His actual words were (quote): "In the Third Reich, at least they had proper labor policies, something that cannot be said of [you], the government here in Austria." So, what he WAS actually saying that NOT EVEN in the Third Reich things were as bad as in Austria at the time. This statement is unacceptable, there is no doubt, but well-balanced and educated writer would have added that Haider was known to use provocative language to get attention, and to polarise. This makes him a populist, sure. But does that make him "praise Hitler "himself, as Noah Klieder says he did? Certainly not! Noah Klieder knowlingly uses false information to create a certain impression which is clearly wrong. (3) Noah Klieder writes about "World War II veterans" and their role as "trusted and fanatical servants of the Reich". Well, doesn't Noah Klieder know that just about nobody even had a choice? Hasn't he studied history? Surely, there were many who followed Hitler or who fanatical servants, but Noah Klieder's statement is unfair to all those who were simply forced to serve in the army of the Third Reich. (4) Noah Klieder writes "No, they have not learned a thing." Yet another generalisation! Unfair and offending. What the hell was Noah Klieder thinking? (5) Noah Klieder writes "a total of 99.7% of Austrians sayd 'yes' to the question of whether they wish to be annexed to the great Reich". That is an insult to every educated and intelligent person not only in Austria, but everywhere, and completely discredits Noah Klieder. I wonder, how he would have answered to the same question, with a gun pointed at his head? I bet the answer was not 'no'. (6) Noah Klieger writes that "Jörg Haider’s funeral has PROVEN once again – as was already proven by the results of the elections held in the country about two weeks ago – that many Austrians still long for those days, 70 years ago" What? Is he crazy? For that statement alone, Noah Klieger should be sued and barred behind prison bars! That is an incredible insult to an entire nation! Mr. Klieger, what you have done here has completely discredited you and your newspaper! It is, as someone else said, simply DISGUSTING! You should be ashamed and apologize. People like YOU poison this world. You should be jailed!
26. what the hell?
xxx ,   vienna   (10.19.08)
this article sounds very nazi-like! what the hell is going on, if there are right thinking asholes here (and they are everywhere, even in israel) you shouldnt put them all in one fkn small box!!! no no! think about your hate letter....actually the right party only won that much cause the conservatives and socialists were to stupid to recruit young voters who were first time allowed to vote (16-19 years old) damn! ps: i fkn love israel!!! but that article is horrible and i hope its not the general meaning of israelis about austrians!
27. you don't know a thing
david ,   vienna   (10.19.08)
It is a shame how you treat 'Austrians' as a people which, as you suggest, is genetically abnormal and antisemitic. You don't know a thing about how the situation in our country actually is. We have as many nasty people as you have in your country and as any country has. Why do you need to demonise our country? Is that some sort of anti-Austrian racism? Bad journalism.
28. Austria - Haider symbol
(10.19.08)
Haider is a symbol of the Neo-Nazi movement. Austrians deep inside are pro Nazis therefore they are saddened by the death of Haider.
29. Jewish people in Austria
Birgit ,   Vienna, Austria   (10.19.08)
I am jewish and Austrian. And I lost most of my family in Auschwitz. . And let me tell you: Things here have -happily- changed. People are aware of Shoa and of WWII. Sad things happened to almost EVERY family here - in one or another way (or do you think it is easy to have a murder as grandfather?). Haider did a lot of things just to be popular. I did not like him neither his politics. He was smart and had a perfect marketing - this marketing also arranged that overwhelming much too big funeral. Most people here were against these ceremonies. People here do say "he was drunk, he was irresponsible, he was a nazi".There is lot of critsism about his endangering others, about his closeness to nazis. Haider is NOT Austria. I would rather ask Israel to help us that the few "Old Veterans" and their young followers can get convinced to a better. It IS time. There are young people, parroting their grandfathers nazi-stuff - not even knowing WHAT they say: If you explain and discuss, they always change their attitude. Things will not change to the better if a whole country is told to be what this country for sure is not.
30. Nice Article about Haider
Paulus ,   Vienna Austria   (10.19.08)
You should clean the mud infront of your doors in Israel before writing such incompetent and hateful articles. You attitude concerning Austria is in no way understandable. Schüssel and Haider sponsered the "Jüdische Kultusgemeinde" in Vienna a lot. And now you arrive with such shit.... Austrians are no Nazis Mister
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