Opinion
Anti-Semitic decision in Spain
Dror Nissan
Published: 31.01.09, 18:03
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61. moratinos
marcel   (02.01.09)
Europeans who serve in afganistan are well known as the cowards that they are-spain withdrew from iraq as their PM is an arab lover. France, italy and germany don't do any of the hard work that the US, brits, Can and dutch do. What a bunch of gutless bastards are the spaniards.!
62. If you try a nation's leaders for the most hideous of crimes
GUH   (02.01.09)
you are undermining their right to exist. In the wild world of Israeli opinion this is a fact.
63. #45
GUH   (02.01.09)
Much as I admire and agree with your thinking, I would like to say this: to tell these people, the Israelis, to reverse the crime by paying compensation (more like money to shut their mouths, akin to bribery), it only gives rich killers an advantage in that they can pay money to erase their crimes; some justice must be done, and I think the seven men behind this massacre must be at least tried if not convicted and sent to jail for a number of months or years. It's doubtful that this will get too far, even talkbackers here are mocking Spain for doing something that is, in my opinion, very bold, very righteous, but very politically incorrect. We'll see.
64. #18- this is why the Spanish courts
GUH   (02.01.09)
are accepting suits against Israelis.
65. fascist Spain
Steven Rosenfeld ,   L.A. USA   (02.01.09)
Israel should immediately put Spain on trial for crimes against humanity for the expulsion of the Jews in 1492 and for the Inquisition, which killed hundreds of thousands of people with the full support of the State. Anything less would be hypocracy.
66. overseas ops
john ,   washington, dc   (02.01.09)
I think it is time that Israel sanctioned independent militias to operate outside the government authority. These militias should not be connected to the government and free to operate independently. Their entire existence would be held secret, known only to the members. The Israeli government should deny any involvement. As times change and the theater of operations becomes fluid logistically and legally, so should planning and execution of covert operations abroad.
67. Spain
Jason Alster ,   Zichron Yacov Israel   (02.01.09)
This just proves that Israel can't afford to give the Arabs anymore land as Israel has to be a safe haven for the Jewish people. Let Mitchel have his 2 state solution, Jordan for Palestine and Israel for the Jews. As far as Spain and the anyone else that is anti-semetic, Israel should not let them visit the Holy land, including the holy sites. When will Israel grow up?
68. victims no matter what!!
mike ,   jerusalem   (02.01.09)
i dont c anything antisemetic in what's happening...those behind the pal. leader are war criminals and should be brought to justic. and u israelis, stop accusing every1 of being antisemetic just coz they r criiticising israel..that's totally discusting, it's a total hijack and blackmail for the world.
69. Anti-Crime decision in Spain
zeev ,   switzerland   (02.01.09)
Would you say that Nuremberg War Crimes Trials undermines Germany's right to exist, or anti-Germans? Certainly the anwer is: No NO No NO Why then the Spanish judge's decision to launch legalproceedings against Israelis authorities undermines Israel's right to exist or Anti-Semitic? Is it because Isrelis authorites have the right to commit any crime without being responsible for these crimes? Stop this paranoic position and encourage Spain to go ahead with its proceedings.... and even to extend them to the crimes committed by Israel's and Hamas leaders.
70. In praise of Spain's independent judiciary
Ben Alofs ,   Bangor   (02.01.09)
Dror Nissan has written a decidedly hysterical article. What we have here is a Spanish judge, who - based on the principle of universal jurisdiction applied to certain serious crimes like war crimes - has granted a petition to seek indictions against a number of Israelis suspected of being involved in war crimes. The dropping of a one ton bomb from an F-16 on a densely populated urban area to kill the suspected bombmaker Shehadeh, leading to the death of 14 innocent civilians of whom 8 where children, poses several questions: one is the question of extrajudicial executions with the State of Israel playing judge, juror and executioner at the same time. The other is the crime of killing innocent people, especially children. In the latest onslaught by Israel against Gaza civilians and civilian infrastructure were targeted more blatantly and intently than ever before as the result of conscious decisions made by military planners and decision makers. There is an international consensus outside Israel that war crimes have been committed. Whereas in Israel jurists are silent and IDF lawyers like Pnina Sharvit Baruch are ready to come up with jurisprudence and justifications in law to defend any war crime Israel commits, there are some brave judges like Fernando Adeu who are prepared to try and bring war criminals to justice, whatever their nationality. Under the same system Spain's independent judiciary tried to hold Augusto Pinochet to account. Yes, in Spain the judiciary system is independent from the state. In Israel it appears to be part and parcel of the Zionist establishment. For Nissan to compare the likes of Dan Halut, Moshe Ya'alon or Ben Eliezer with Dreyfus is an insult to Dreyfus. These are all men who have not expressed even a whiff of regret for the killing of innocent children. Where Nissan becomes hysterical is to call Spain's decision 'anti-semitic'. This was not a government decision, but one taken by Spain's independent judiciary. War criminals, whatever their nationality, should not be allowed to live in safety without the threat of prosecution. By showing determination to prosecute war criminals we may help to prevent these crimes from taking place in the future. It is time that in Israel, overrun by chauvinism and blind patriotism, people should begin to understand that Israel has crossed a red line in violations of international law and the laws governing war.
71. It's not the Spanish
Joseph ,   Israel   (02.01.09)
The Spanish are not responsible. The Meretz-allied "Yesh Gvul" organization demanded the investigation and called for criminal charges.
72. to #25 and to #33
avelino   (02.01.09)
Have you lost your mind? This probe is absolutely antisemitic. Where are the probes and riots against hamas? Maybe you will find that they didn't commit any crime. I find unbelievable your lack of Intelectual honesty and rigourness.
73. U guys missing the point: Spain IS Arabia now
shneerhere ,   USA   (02.01.09)
The Iberian Peninsula has gone Islamic big-time. Don't be fooled, the courts, the food, the culture.... not 100% overt yet, but it doesn't matter. The 20th century Crusade has been won... buy ISLAM. This is just a small manifestation of Islam winning 'hearts and minds' of all of Europe. Europe is D'himmi, they just don't know it yet. ...... but they will.
74. is bombing Sbarro a war crime? buses? Seders????
NewAllegiance ,   Chicago   (02.01.09)
Enough of this 'war crime' bs. For decades, Fatah and Islamic Jihad and Hamas and Hizbollah have been bombing are babies, buses, cafes and more. Aren't those 'war crimes'? Mostly just dead Jews, so maybe that's not a crime at all! Israel has nothing to apologize for , except inherent weakness in the defense of her citizens. If this was the US conducting warfare, or Russia hitting Chechnya, you would've seen seven times the amount of casualties. Kiss off, world...we know what you want.
75. #42 I Am Worked Up Because
Lawrence ,   Safed Israel   (02.01.09)
Israelis do not deserve the international threats to try their officers and military commanders in international courts.This smacks of anti-semitism and hypocrisy and as a jew I find this disturbing and offensive.Why not try British soldiers for War Crimes against Argentina,serbia and Iraqi civiliansor Americans?
76. Denouncing Israel in its war against Hamas.
Robert Bernier ,   Tel Aviv   (02.01.09)
Criticize Israel? Certainly. But those who so loudly denounce Israel in its war against Hamas are siding with some of the most virulent Jew-haters on earth. They may tell themselves that that doesn't make them anti-Semites. But it does. "When people criticize Zionists," Martin Luther King said in 1968, "they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism." More about the poor oppressed “Palestinians” at : http://xrl.us/bjt95
77. YAWN
Jose ,   Spain   (02.01.09)
78. Darsemann...you disgust me!!
Mark ,   New York   (02.01.09)
Maybe Israeli courts should file charges against the Spanish because of all the Catalans & Basques killed by Franco or better yet lets fly into Israel all the relatives of the Indians, Irish & Scottish that were brutalized, enslaved and murdered over centuries in Britain's attempts to control the world and have them file lawsuits against the current English government. At least we were trying to defend ourselves by killing a mass murdered…The British on the other hand just wanted to control the world. Freaking Hypocrite!!
79. the only thing anti-semetic is the artical
j ,   jer is   (02.01.09)
because the author is hurting the jewish cause by telling lies instead of accepting responcibilty
80. Why don't we add some actual legal analysis to this debate..
Eran ,   USA   (02.01.09)
The threats here against the judge are childish, but the article is valid and the decision should not be taken lightly. Laws are not to be taken lightly, or else they are abused or worse yet ignored. The killing of 14 civilians does not amount to a war crime in any legal text or manifest, or else every NATO nation should have been tried for war crimes after bombing Bosnia, Britain should have been tried for war crimes after bombing Berlin, and the US for bombing Afghanistan and Iraq. Nation's enjoy sovereignty which allows them to do what they must to protect their citizens, and when other nations open their courts to allow jurisdiction to try members of the military and political elites of other sovereign nations, that open the door to further conflict, not peace. Perhaps everyone in the US should try all of Iran and Syria's and Saudi Arabia's leaders for war crimes for supporting/funding terror, including the 9/11 attack? The notion that a low-level judge in Spain can allow a trial against such high-ranking persons in a foreign sovereign state is what is at issue here, and the fact that his decision lacks facts but is rife with anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic undertones is the problem.
81. #30 DEMOCRACY???? #79
Objectivatory ,   EUROPE   (02.01.09)
.This country does not have even a CONSTITUTION.. :#79The thing that is really strange for me in Israel that if you dont like something or if something is not happening according to your interest its anti-semitic..its a good trump/ace
82. Zeev , Nurenberg trials were held IN Germany
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (02.01.09)
against germans . Here you have complaints made against Israeli people , by some [ not even Spanish ? ] organisations , not in Israel , but in Spain .
83. Who you left in the world
(02.01.09)
who you didn't accuse yet with ant-simitism ... and you are the poor baby faces always inocents and do nothing wrong and the rest of the world are the bad guys ....
84. #80
Erich ,   Switzerland   (02.01.09)
I agree with you. The judge I believe is a judge in the national Court in Madrid- not so low-level . There is a lot of talk of anti-semitism in this TB (and others) . I and many other Europeans are asking ourselves however why this is happening. In our countries we are Swiss, Germans, French- who happen to be Catholic, Protestant, etc... we do not identify statehood and religion- it is totally separate. So if I don't agree with what the German government is doing I am saying something against Germany, not german Protestants or catholics. In the same manner, If I do not agree with Israeli policies ( and I am free to say so as long as it is not racist and hatemongering.., because I live in a democratic country- ) this does in no way mean I am against the Jewish religion, nor Jews- . I have asked many of my Jewish friends- the answers are always really twisted- they admit that there are Israeli-Christians, Israeli-Arabs- Israeli-Jews- so logically the name of Israel would stand for ALL... so to be really accurate, the statements in TBs should read- in most cases: anti-Israeli, not anti-semitic, then people in other countries would understand. This court case (who I think is the brain child of an opportunistic, greedy, over ambitious shyster), is against high level personnel of Israel, the fact that they happened to be Jewish (they could be Christians too? the army has Christian and Arab soldiers too, I don't know?) is most likely not important for the judge- he just smells money and thinks he will become famous.
85. #7 do I care if Spain exists ?
Dan ,   Sydney, Australia   (02.01.09)
to be honest, not at all
86. #70 even by your standards that is laughable
Danny   (02.01.09)
Shehade was openly one of the most senior members of the military wing of Hamas. Absolutely no one doubts this, Hamas is proud of him. Anyone who puts the word "suspected" in front of this statement is a liar. Ergo you are a liar, just like when you lied about armed men not being allowed in Shifra. As for this case it has been thrown out all over the world, including Spain and will be thrown out again, presumably with less noise. The only thing that is true about your post is that this is a hysterical article. The people involved are on the margins of Spanish society and this is just a case of the same people filing the same suit over and over, generating some news which then quietly dies off when the case is thrown out of court.
87. **82 Nurenberg Trials in Jerusalem and Gaza, not in Spain
zeev ,   switzerland   (02.01.09)
Charles writes: "Zeev , Nurenberg trials were held IN Germany against germans . Here you have complaints made against Israeli people , by some [ not even Spanish ? ] organisations , not in Israel , but in Spain". I agree to have "Nurenberg Trials" against Israelis and Hamas leaders in Jerusalem and Gaza, with judges from different countries as in Nurenberg. It would bee even easier to collect evidence on Israeli and Hamas leaders' crimes. Would you agree for that? I hope so.
88. Spain, the happy dhimmi country
Raphael ,   Netanya   (02.01.09)
Spain remained the surest shelter for nazi criminals,and never complied to any extradition request. Their own backyard is full of hundreds of thousands of unpunished mass executions from both sides during the civil war. Some executioners are still alive and well, but no judge bothers: they do not want to disturb their civil peace, thus it is easier to stir up hatred against the jewish state, as usual. Maybe they need another string of bombings in their trains, to remind them who are the criminals against humanity.
89. Spanish Inquisition hasn't ended yet
Sarit ,   Israel   (02.01.09)
90. Antisemitism
Gil Stamberger ,   Turnhout, Belgium   (02.01.09)
The problem is not the elimination of Shehadeh, The problem is, that in order to kill Shehadeh - not during a war, but in a specially planned operation + Israel willingly killed 13 other innocent people and wounded another 100 more. I agree that you can discuss on the opportunism of the Spanish judge, but the fact that you so easily accept the fact that it is OK to willingly kill innocents is shameful as well,
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