Opinion
What kind of 2 states?
Sara Eliash
Published: 27.04.09, 18:12
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31. #23 wanted to say you can't be arab moslem and a jew
(04.28.09)
cause you can be a jewish moslem, but if you marry a jew your children will be jewish, and if you marry a moslem you children will be moslem. if your children (when moslem) marry a moslem, the grandchildren will not be jewish at all anymore. .
32. Well said
Wise Saba ,   Netivot   (04.28.09)
For once someone got it right.
33. POPULATION TRANSFERS AFTER WARS....
Aaron ,   SF, USA   (04.28.09)
.....HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN THE PAST IN RESPECT TO THE VICTORIOUS NATION. TRANSFERRING PALESTINIANS TO THEIR HOME IN JORDAN AND HAVING THE UNHCR ABSORB THE UNRWA WOULD BE THE QUICKEST WAY TO PEACE.
34. #16
Aaron ,   SF, USA   (04.28.09)
Population transfers happen all the time after wars. Kuwait expelled 400,000 Palestinians after the Gulf war. Bi-national states have also proven to NOT work in the past. Likewise, the idea that there was no violence before 1948 or even 1890 is ridiculous. you know how many Muslims have killed Jews and Christians in the past when they didn't convert?
35. to #30 rivk the native americans
ghostq   (04.28.09)
were local and was treated very shamfully, the palestinians r not native the came with saladin conquasts to the holly land arouns 1100, and r no natives eather way even after establish palestinian country of their own their will be a heavy burden on Israel economicaly since non of the basic needs they can manufactur for themselves, they will always be dependant on Israel, that is they won't kill each other first.
36. The Two States solution has reduced the prospects for peace.
Dave Ronen ,   Haifa   (04.28.09)
The Two States solution is based on a series of erroneous assumptions, ignoring documented precedents, and therefore constituting an erroneous policy. "Israel and Palestine living side-by-side in peace," while the PLO and Hamas have been engaged in a horrific civil war, while there has not been inter-Arab peace during the last 1,400 years, while there has not been inter-Arab compliance with most inter-Arab agreements during the last 1,400 years, while there has not been a single Arab democracy during the last 1,400 years??? The Two States solution has exacerbated regional turbulence, has fueled terrorism, has promoted war and has reduced the prospects for peace, thus undermining the national security of both the US and Israel. As to the legitimacy : http://xrl.us/benher
37. #31, also virtually all arabs when talking arabic
Danny   (04.28.09)
refer to Israelis as Jews. So an Israeli Arab would be refered to as a moslem jew or christian jew.
38. Tel Aviv = Hebron and Haifa = Shechem
BJL ,   usa   (04.28.09)
And Sderot = Bet El If you dont assert your right to Judea (Jew-de-ah) and Samaria the arabs will say you have no right to any of the land. The biggest selling book in the world details your right to where you lived before. Claim it! The Arabs are East of the Jordan. And why did Jordan not reclaim "palestine" why they ruled from 1948 to 1967? Cause there never was a Palestine to reclaim....unless you are talking about the Jews...
39. One State---for All
Ali ,   Los Angeles   (04.28.09)
2 states is non-sense-One state with the right of return-equal rights for all---that is the best, however Israel will never agree to this and that is why peace will not happen any time soon. Israel cannot continue to exist until it demands of itself what it demands of its neighbors...to live in dignity and respect. As long as Israelis look upon the Palestinians as beneath them, they are setting themselves up for perpetual conflict. Palestinians will never, ever, ever give up their rights to live in freedom and the desire to live freely will eventually conquer Israel's desire to occupy, humiliate, and degrade the original inhabitants of the land
40. What is the solution?
Yehudi ,   Jerusalem, israel   (04.28.09)
Sara, your article is historically correct but it offers no realistic solution to the existing problem. The problem is that both the Jews and the Arabs claim that the land is theirs. The Arabs living in Israel are not going to move to Jordan. The Jews living in Israel are not going to leave and go somewhere else. So please tell me, what is the solution?
41. The solution is...
Concerned realist   (04.28.09)
Jordan will have open borders and allow in the arab refugees in the west bank since those are Jordanian citizens from pre-67. Likewise Egypt will allow in the gazan refugees as they are Egyptian from pre-67. End of story. The original inhabitants of the land of Israel are the Israeli Jews. Is that really so difficult? I realize the arabs tried to destroy all evidence of this but guess what? The evidence still exists. And no, the moslems didn't convert under threat of death every single person in the middle east. The Jews are real. The Jews are here to stay. Swallow that bitter pill already.
42. answer 14 questions
ranjan ,   la,usa   (04.28.09)
Was there a country called Palestine or people called the Palestinians? If you are so sure that “Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history”, I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of "Palestine": 1. When was it founded and by whom? 2. What were its borders? 3. What was its capital? 4. What were its major cities? 5. What constituted the basis of its economy? 6. What was its form of government? 7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat? 8. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation? 9. What was the language of the country of Palestine? 10. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine? 11. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and try and find the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, British pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date. 12. Have the Palestinians left any artifacts behind? 13. Do you know of a library where one could find a work of Palestinian literature produced before 1967? 14. And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?
43. Arabs and Muslim read your Quran
ranjan ,   la,usa   (04.28.09)
Your allah has ordained Holy Land for Bani Yisrael and he will bring back Yehudim to Holy Land. Sura 5.20-21 And (remember) when Moses said unto his people: O my people ! Remember Allah's favor unto you, how He placed among you Prophets, and He made you Kings, and gave you that (which) He gave not to any (other) of (His) creatures. O my people! Go into the holy land which Allah hath ordained for you. Turn not in flight, for surely ye turn back as losers: Sura 17.104 And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass we shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations
44. Two state solution?
Avraham   (04.28.09)
Let's imagine the day the Palestinian state be established. Why those "Palestinians" should not one then claim the territorial rights to all of what was once the British Palestine, including Israel? So why at all we ever accepted the name "Palestine" to continues to be in use? If Yugoslavia dissapeared forever, why should "Palestine" continue to exist? And finally, who are those Arabs who claim to be Palestinians. Arafat himself came from Egipt!
45. #27 jordan 75% palestinian, any knowledge of jews in tibet?
(04.28.09)
israel (+wb) 60% jewish, because israel's cities, bult by jews long ago, are inhabited by arabs. your place is in arab cities, but the only city built by arabs in palestine is ramla. even gaza was inhabbited by jews before arabs invaded into it. there's a big synagogue there from 5th century, unless hamas destroyed it, to cover up tracks they don't want to explain to the population.
46. #27 moslem want the whole world 2 B moslem including israel
jews belong to israe   (04.28.09)
you have a problem with people who want what is theirs, because you want what is not yours. israel and west bank are a small area that belongs to the israel jewish nation imperpetually. your moslem invasion has to stop there.
47. #16 are you kidding?
Concerned realist   (04.28.09)
Jews get the good land? Did you take a look how that good land came about? It came through damn hard work and sweat, something the arab world, and the "palestinian" arab people in the west bank and gaza know nothing about. You speak of it as if just arose overnight. It didn't. But you know what you disgusting people did to the hard work of the Jews in the form of the greenhouses? You destroyed them. Unfortunately, you've shown the world you and your ilk are nothing better than creeps, no different from the various evils in the world and those who want something for nothing. Lazy is what it's called. Disingenuous is to make it even clearer.
48. Yeah Sara!
daniel   (04.28.09)
49. sameer @ 27; This is the place.
leo ,   USA   (04.28.09)
50. #16 - "Jews lived in peace before Zionism"
William ,   Israel   (04.28.09)
You mean that Jews accepted the role of Dhimmi before Zionism which sets out to create an entity in which Jews rule themselves and have self-determination. yeah - I can see why Arabs would consider this an afront to their good treatment of Jews before, huh? I mean, how dare a group of sub-humans lift themselves up to be equal to Muslims. Unheard of! Here's another perspective I'd like you to consider - before the arrival of foreign Muslims to the region, Jews lived in peace with their neighbors. Those pushing Islamic supremacy and genocidal attacks created the pit in which you find yourselves - and a 2-State solution in which you are not welcome in Israel. You WERE welcome but you just happened to deny Jews' right to exist and chose war several times, and lost.
51. #47 response to #16 - on Good Land
William ,   Israel   (04.28.09)
Very well said. Pals have always looked at what others have and attempted to get it through violence and revisionism. They claim the Temple Mount never really existed and they claim that Israel's medical and technology industries are really their's. If Pals were even half as industrious as Jews, especially with the technologies and open industrial zones they have been shared by Israelis, they would have continued the fastest growing economy of the late 90s. But as pointed out, pride and hubris go hand-in-hand with the Arab thinking and the rest is history.
52. To Joe #9. A Painstaking Study.
Maansingh ,   The Netherlands   (04.28.09)
You say :”.. Saudi occupation of Hashemite land. The House of Saud is merely a group of unpedigreed bandits who illegally usurped a throne which wasn't theirs, ..” You have done a painstaking study (with far-reaching consequences) -- and have thus opened the eyes of the world. And the leading countries of the world are responsible for creating this Saudi menace.
53. what kind of 2 states
enrique ,   miami U.S.A.   (04.29.09)
helo sara, i completly agree with you on that subject, but the thing is that i am not the one that shall read that item, i wish in the white house they could read that real story the way it is ,so our enemies and their allies as shalom archave, shall read it more then the ones that understood the problem long ago.
54. Excellent Analysis...But does the Left listen?
David T. ,   LA, USA   (04.29.09)
55. 2 states for 2 people
Gil ,   Belgium   (04.29.09)
So what is your alternative? What are your plans for the 3 million Palestinians living in the occupied territories and in the Gaza strip. Are you going to give them full citizen rights and incorporate them in the Jewish State (where the Jews then will be a minority within a short time)? Or are you going to give the occupied territories back to Jordan? The current situation is untenable. Your article is nice in its rhetorics but does not answer any of these questions. Your argument that what is now Jordan is part of historical Palestine is pure and simple hogwash. Jordan is essentially for 95% desert. The 3 million Palestinians living in the occupied territories and Gaza don't want to move to the desert, they want to live a normal life in the places where they, their parents and their grandparents have lived....
56. Already 2 states for 2 people: Jordan and israel both part
Jae ,   Lynn US   (04.29.09)
of "palestine" End of story.
57. Gil #55. Jordan is 4 times larger than israel and has as
Jae ,   Lynn US   (04.29.09)
almost the same population size as Israel. Jordan population is 80% palestinian. Its ruling party- the hashemite clan is 0.1% of population. talk about unfair minority ruling huge majority. Additionally hahsmeite clan is imported from mecca by the british. they arent even natives or have any historical ties to the region! As for desert- news flash Israel is 75% desert and wilderness. Jordan is the same but it is far far bigger. Plus look at at saudi arabia. It is 99% desert. they are doing ok last time i checked. Israel will not be made to be 8 miles wide as you would have it. its a tricky situation and there is no better alternative than to have 25 arab countries and one jewish country as is the case right now. Most arabs in Judea samaria and gaza came into the country in droves when the Jews, en masse returned from 1860's-1940's. You are mistaken if you think the majority of arabs have been living here for 2000 years. That is simple and pure bulhonkey. Immigration due to economic opportunity is the reason most arabs are here. The Biritish in racist fashion limited Jeiwhs immigration and that resulted in the Holocaust; arabs had no immigration restraints. they could walk on in. Solution is ultimately to compensate the Jews from arab lands who were ethnically cleansed from arab countries theyd lived in 1000 years before Mohammed was born. Then the arabs in israel who refuse to be loyal to the JEWISH country (black jews and white Jews, not a race, but a people united by ancient history and spirituality and religion) get compensated monetarily and live in one of the 56 Muslim nations of the world or 25 arab nations of the world or dozens of westren countries who pressure Israel all the time and love arab oil.
58. #46,#47 &sara you missed something
sameer   (04.29.09)
you have to remember this land given to israeli's by the british so before Balfour this land belong to the pali's and beside that sara , assume the world forced ( which is impossible by the new circumstances ) the pali's on the solution jordan is palestin ( of course the pali's wont accept that ) so what ???? what a genius idea may the leftist you talk with have no well analysis so plz sara answer me this question with a non accepted majority palestinian for this solution and existence of HAMAS and other radical islam and opened border with IRAN what you expected ??? another hizballa or bigger ?? the jordan as its now is the most wanted thing to israel may you dont see far than your nose
59. THE LIBERAL "SHTETL" JEWS NEED TO UNDERSTAND
andrew ,   miami,fl   (04.29.09)
thats right !! liberal shtetl jews are the ones who still think we live in europe circa 1908 - they live in america - they still use yiddish phrases - and yearn for yiddish culture (they bank roll the specials on PBS) - many still have mixed NY and semi-polish accents - they are stuck in the hippie days - they think the world is still woodstock - they are "intellectuals" but not actual scientists (they usually are doctors of humanities) - They crap all over the evangelical christians - yet have never once heard john hagee - or understood the movement (or even tried) - they drone on with passover ritual that they hate- yet think it still applies anyone care to add to this...
60. Yesha is in dead end
Avi-former Sruggie ,   Israel   (04.29.09)
Your enterprise has no backing of the majority of us. You have a dream which is only an empty shell. Sharon gave back Gaza, Bibi gave Hebron, Begin gave Sinai. Yesha is dead.
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