Opinion
Kingdom of hatred
Adi Porat
Published: 25.08.09, 23:57
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
158 Talkbacks for this article
61. Daniel , London
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.26.09)
There you were on a very wrong way . You would'nt be able to use your PC without Israeli Technology . Security ? first developped here . Intel ? develop's here . Microsoft , HP and others have great RD centers here . Your mobile phone uses Israeli Technology , and so on . After the USA ones , Israeli societies are the second in quantity quoted at the Nasdaq . In quantity , not per capita ! And we shall not talk about the Jewish contribution to Humanity , not Israeli , so not so related .
62. #51
Folksjäl ,   Sverige   (08.26.09)
Nah, we are just not as primitive as other countries. We can solve problems without killing the people who doesn't agree with us. Have fun in Rosengård, i bet you enjoy living in that warzone, and yeah, thanks for destroying Malmö.
63. #56 Hilonia
Daniel ,   London   (08.26.09)
If it's not a pissing contest, you shouldn't have started it. Sweden is self-sufficient, why would we be 'jealous' of Israel? You don't export anything we need. How would you do without Bofors exporting the AT4's that you use in such abundance? What about the sureveillance technology provided by SAAB and Ericsson? What does natural resources have to do with it? I don't see Quatar being a leader in technology. Sweden is smaller than Israel, and third in technological achievement because of a wholly domestic tradition of science. World leading technological conglomerates like ABB, Electrolux, Ericsson, Skanska, Volvo AB (truckmaker), SAAB (defense conglomerate) are all Swedish. Last I check the Nobel Prize was still the bechmark of good science, and it would not retain its prestige if it weren't for good and impartial science. Without Linneaus, no Darwin. There have been great jewish scientists, but please, why would we be jealous? Swedes see independence as freedom, jealousy is a waste of time that only foreigners indulge in. I am not complacent, nor is anyone else in Sweden really. All the broadsheets called the falsity of that article out. What was shocking was accusations of anti-semitism, and 'kingdom of hatred' which were completely unfounded, and the fact that your government asked ours to edit newspaper articles contrary to the world's oldest freedom of the press act. Come to Sweden and I promise you that you will be met by love if you are prepared to love others. Never hatred, we don't hate, it's as simple as that. We dislike and disapprove, but we don't hate. A complete waste of time that was more or less outlawed by Birger jarl in the 1250's. And then complete conformity to Lutheranism for half a millennia. The gospel according to Matthew is esp. central: (38) “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ (39) But I tell you, don’t resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. (40) If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. (41) Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. (42) Give to him who asks you, and don’t turn away him who desires to borrow from you. (43) “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.’ (44) But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, (45) that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust. (46) For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil. (36) Therefore be merciful, even as your Father is also merciful. To criticise Israel is not anti-semitism. I don't even think of Israel as a 'jewish' state, nor have I ever really thought about her existence. Most Swedes are indifferent to jews and muslims, Israelis and Palestinians. The Swedish left are on the side of Palestine since they are seen as underdogs fighting the might of a modern, industrialised country with the aid of the world's last superpower. Israel's responses to acts of war also seems incommensurate at times. They see you as Goliath and his whole family jumping up and down on David. This is an impassionate analysis for most Swedes who always try to be objective. If a family member in Sweden commits a crime, the rest of the family would strongly urge her to turn herself in. Might even do it. Right is right, or my head. Bend justice and it breaks. Those are thousand year old Swedish sayings.
64. Daniel #63 have you learned to read?
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (08.26.09)
"What does natural resources have to do with it? I don't see Quatar being a leader in technology. Sweden is smaller than Israel, and third in technological achievement because of a wholly domestic tradition of science. World leading technological conglomerates like ABB, Electrolux, Ericsson, Skanska, Volvo AB (truckmaker), SAAB (defense conglomerate) are all Swedish. Last I check the Nobel Prize was still the bechmark of good science, and it would not retain its prestige if it weren't for good and impartial science. Without Linneaus, no Darwin. There have been great jewish scientists, but please, why would we be jealous? Swedes see independence as freedom, jealousy is a waste of time that only foreigners indulge in. " Sweden is smaller than Israel? Really? The land area of Sweden is 449,964 sq km. Israel is 22,145 sq km. So according to you 22,145 > 449,964. Now in my mathematics Sweden is over 20 times the size of Israel. None of your claims change a single fact that Sweden is a racist country. Try using facts instead of your BS.
65. #44 Let´s talk about hatred
Marucho ,   Bs.Aires-Argentina   (08.26.09)
Mikesailor, you should teach us whom the jews hated previous to the State of Israel for about 2000 years, so that they deserved all the killings they had to suffer all along that period. And you should be more specific to tell us whom the palestinean jews hate in order to deserve the 1920, 1922, 1929 and 1936 killings the arabs carried out
66. Ok let see what we got here.
Stefan ,   Gothenburg Sweden   (08.26.09)
One article published by one newspaper, some politicians pick it up in Israel and direct it to Sweden to condemn the article. The Swedish government didnt write it and they cannot condemn it because the laws forbid government interference in press printing and publish of work. Then we have all these people from all over the world that suddenly step forward and tell what they think about Sweden and describe a deep negative prejudice towards Sweden. This is punishment of all Swedes over what one Swede have written. I as a Swede can responde in same wrong matter and think , this is what Israelis think about Sweden , they see us like jew haters , anti semites and so on. If someone are a good person and do good stuffs I judge them as good , if they do bad stuffs I just try to avoid it. And if this person is Israeli , palestine, jew , muslim , Swede, black, homosexual, politician, social worker, young, old , woman , man or whatever have nothing to do with it. If an individual do something right or wrong they are the one to adress in good or bad. I can only say that Israel press and its leader hands many tools and argument to people that have deep prejudice towards jews but thats people that would think that about jews no matter what. Before this happend with this article. When the "cast lead" happend I was sad for all the civilians that died , the people that didnt have a choice and was caught in the middle. I was angry because some that dont like jews that much took the oppurtunity trying to target jews in Sweden. I think that because what they do down in Israel what political decisions made by Israli politicians isnt something that others have any say in so target jews in Sweden like they did for something that the politicians in Israel set in motions is wrong. Its always wrong to attack someone because they happend to belong to a religion, have a certain ethnecity, have a certain sexual preference , belong to a certain country. If someone commited something wrong its proper to argue it on the issue individual to indivudual and put aside stuffs like who they happend to be. This is politic whats happening when Liebermann speak , when Netanyahu speak they dont speak for all jews in the world, they speak for their government , they speak for their party and they speak for themself. This issue have nothing to do with religion it has everything to do with human behaviour and human value.
67. no 3
Stefan ,   Sweden   (08.26.09)
shechitah - I just looked it up, it is religious slaughter. Neather Halal slaughter or Kosher slaughter is permitted in Sweden. The reason is that the method used is banned is because its considered to be unnessisary suffering for the animal. So the ban is due to the best of the animal and see to it that it suffer as little as possible when its time to butcher it. Brit milah or jewish circomcission isnt forbidden in Sweden. I dont know what severly restricts you refer to. I know from the debates that circomsission made on girls is strictly forbidden and also issues related to medical considerations have been an concern . Maybe thats the restrictions you point at. To actually have demand that the procedure is done in by people that medical know what they are doing.
68. Swedish news agence 'TT' is MUCH worse!
Fredrik Nilsson ,   Stockholm   (08.26.09)
The worst Swedish media is the openly pro-Palestinian news agency "Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå" (TT) - the Swedsih equivalent of AFP. Up until 2007, and for almost 30 years, its foremost Mid East writer was an OPEN Holocaust-denier. His name is Stefan Hjertén, and during the 1980:s, while working for TT, he expressed public support for Robert Faurisson (the Holocaust denier) and said he couldn't fins proof of the existence of the gas chambers. He has been writing almost all the Swedish dispatches about the Middle east that have been published in Sweden up until 2007, when he retired. His supervisors where well aware oh his sympathies, but they let him carry on.
69. FROM SWEDISH DAYLY BLADE !!!.
ORAO STRANKA. ,   TSARIGRAD U SRBIA.   (08.27.09)
Död i strid - ingen lämplig organdonator Publicerad: 26 augusti 2009, 15.12. Senast ändrad: 26 augusti 2009, 17.40 Det kan låta cyniskt, men organen bör knappast ha varit av den kvaliteten att man velat använda dessa till transplantation. Tanken att använda någon som avlidit ute på fältet som organdonator är absurd, skriver läkaren Mats Eriksson efter Aftonbladets publicering och det följande diplomatiska bråket med Israel. Translation: Swedish » English Death in battle - no suitable organ donor Published: 26 August 2009, 15.12. Last update: 26 August 2009, 17:40 It may sound cynical, but agencies should hardly have been of the quality that we wanted to use them for transplants. The idea of using someone who has died on the ground as an organ donor is absurd, writes doctor Mats Eriksson for Aftonbladet's publication and the subsequent diplomatic row with Israel. Orao>
70. Not Sweden, everywhere
manugw ,   Buenos Aires, Arg   (08.27.09)
What you describe happens everywhere in the world expect Israel and to some extent the US. Even though being a citizen of a given country, a Jew of the Diaspora might wonder... Should I tell them I am Jewish ?, How this warm and friendly people would react ?. These are some questions some Israel journalists heaviliy criticizing Israel from a top Israeli newspaper have never had to ask themselves
71. shechita
DB   (08.27.09)
The laws in Sweden haven't changed since they were imposed during the Nazi era. The rationale - the "suffering of the animal"--came after the anti-Jewish rationale was no longer acceptable. Halal is permitted as the EU has allowed it provided the animal is stun first, which Jewish law forbids. As far as circumcision goes, Sweden requires an anasthetic applied, also violating traditional Jewish custom. The bottom line that religious tolerance is not one of Sweden's strong suits.
72. no 16
Stefan ,   Gothenburg Sweden   (08.27.09)
All media lacks in neutrality , that doesnt mean that an article can be fair enough to present different peoples view in the same article to show what positons they have. During "Cast lead" there were people that strongly opposed it and pointed out all civilians that got killed by this attack. There were people that attacked and tried to attack jewish in Sweden due to this and same people that were upset about civilians killed in cast lead also stood up on the jewish side against this. And no Government cannot go in and condemn an article. The official body of Sweden like government and riksdagen is the represents for Sweden anything of statement coming out is set by the majority vote. They never comment specific verdicts in the justice system on official basis , and they never comment articles and call for withdraw the existance of someones printing of words. We have laws that regulate if wrondoings have been commited , hate speech , smear and other kind of stuffs. If this article from Aftonbladet comes under breaking these laws then the legal system will measure that accourding to the laws. The hands off policy from the elected body that is riksdag , and government is important. We have a monarchy with a king. Ask him about politic and he will say nothing because by law he shall not interfere in politic, any political opinion he may have he just have to keep for himself. If Sweden were anti semite there would not be any "hate speech" laws in our laws , there wouldnt be laws that specific issue that people can belive whatever they like to belive and thats a right. Sweden prohibits hate speech, hets mot folkgrupp, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten or express disrespect for an ethnic group or similar group regarding their race, skin colour, national or ethnic origin, faith or sexual orientation.
73. To Serge #4. Blessing in Disguise.
Maansingh ,   The Netherlands   (08.27.09)
You say :” It applies a standard to Israeli action that it applies to no other place.” THAT being the case, Cynic #2 is in fact glorifying Israel -- unintentionally. His intention was to depict Israel as evil. But by applying a higher standard to Israeli action, Cynic #2 is IN FACT glorifying the Jewish State of Israel. So we should thank Cynic #2, and the Swedes who think like him, for indirectly glorifying the Jewish State of Israel. People like Cynic #2 are a blessing in disguise.
74. To Mikesailor#44. ALL Over The World.
Maansingh ,   The Netherlands   (08.27.09)
You say :” There is no country on earth which hates the outside world as much as the Israelis.” WRONG. The Israelis go on holidays all over the world (except, of course, to the bastion of islamic militancy called Saudi Arabia, and a few other countries). IF the Israelis would hate for example Indonesia, which is part of the outside world, why would they go there on holidays ? In fact, the Israelis love to travel ALL over the world. They would even like to visit Saudi Arabia ; but the small-minded rulers and cripple-minded Muftis of Saudi Arabia are hindering that to happen. So Mike, your above statement is just plain B.S.
75. #68
Folksjäl ,   Swe   (08.27.09)
That's a load of bullshit and you know it.
76. #64 Yes, have you heard of the
Daniel ,   London   (08.27.09)
principle of charity? You should think 'how can he have meant the argument?'. How could land mass possibly have anything to do with research other than on the absolute margin? I of course did not mean the size of the land mass, but the Jewish vs Swedish populations. Although I grant that at any one time *inside* Israel there are slightly less Jews than ethnic Swedes in Sweden. Given that the talk here has concerned the Jewish nation, which a take to include the diaspora, I thought the Jewish nation was bigger than the Swedish. Nevertheless, if you mean Israel and not Jews (which is the distinction many Swedes here have been trying to make) I stand corrected. But jeez, land mass? And yes, these facts do change the 'fact' that Sweden is racist. It simply isn't. It is one of the absolutely most tolerant and democractic countries in the world.
77. #71 Another confused Israeli
Hemsk ,   Sweden   (08.27.09)
"The laws in Sweden haven't changed since they were imposed during the Nazi era" Eh, yes they have. Prove me wrong, show me the paragraph in "Sveriges Rikes Lag". " provided the animal is stun first, which Jewish law forbids." Guess you need to update your law then. It is all bollocks anyway. "As far as circumcision goes, Sweden requires an anasthetic applied, also violating traditional Jewish custom." Great ! Why are you so obsessed with little boys penises anyway ? "The bottom line that religious tolerance is not one of Sweden's strong suits." Another line of bollocks. You can still circumcise in Sweden, but you need a doctor to do it, and not just a bearded old man. But of course this specific level of tolerance vs foreign religions is a total disgrace for a modern country like Sweden. Forced and unnecessary surgical procedures on kids a couple of days old... why don't you let me know when you leave the middle ages and we'll start treating Israel like an adult nation.
78. #71 a thought experiment for you
Hemsk ,   Sweden   (08.27.09)
Do you allow female genital mutilation for religious reasons in Israel ? If you don't, according to your own logic, you do not have freedom of religion.
79. TALKBACKER NUMBER 75.
ORAO STRANKA. ,   TSARIGRAD U SRBIA.   (08.27.09)
I KNOW THAT THE BULLSHIT COMES FROM THE POLITICAL MAJORITY IN SWEDEN, THE LEFTIST YOU CALL- Folksjäl , Swe (08.27.09 Translation: Swedish » English People's Mind, Eng (08.27.09 Orao.
80. TALKBACKER NUMBER 78.
ORAO STRANKA. ,   TSARIGRAD U SRBIA.   (08.27.09)
Do you allow female genital mutilation for religious reasons in Israel ? If you don't, according to your own logic, you do not have freedom of religion. Hemsk , Sweden (08.27.09) ALLOWING FALSE RELIGIONS, ARE NO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, AS ALLOWING NAZI - OPINNION ABOUT - DAS HERRENFOLK -, IS NOT POLITICAL FREEDOM. Orao.
81. #78
Hilonia   (08.27.09)
I read all your responses, why are you so obssesed with us anyway? I certianly don't enter Swedish websites in english to comment on daily events... Please keep your relegious tolerence at home. Woman circumcision is not a religious practice. And the CDC in America is going to recoemmend circumcision to all males by the way. I am totally secular and I have no idea where you bring all this hatred towrds Jewish religion. I hope you treat muslims better. I know we do!
82. to stefan
Hilonia   (08.27.09)
Dear Stefan, The Swedish FM supported the book that the same reporter published with teh same accusations a few years ago. What I don't understand is Swedish impotence. If you think what written in there is even partially true, then Sweden should have not kept quite all these years. If Swedish govmnt thinks there is no shred of evidence it should sya something. and this has got nothing to do with your parliament as far as I understand democracy. the same as press conferences that the PM holds do not require a parliament permit and teh same as PREZ OBama did not need congress permit to make a speech in Cairo. Wait, maybe you don't understand democracy?
83. 76.....Daniel
Franklin ,   Paris   (08.27.09)
....." And yes, these facts do change the 'fact' that Sweden is racist. It simply isn't. It is one of the absolutely most tolerant and democractic countries in the world.". THE MOST TOLERANT COUNTRY BLIND AND SELECTIVE IN HIS PRINCIPLE OF CHARITY... YOUR POSTS CONFIRMING STEP BY STEP THIS REALITY. Can you please condamn the uggly article of your Aftonbla...bla...and his stupid reports....???
84. I have an awesome Idea that will make you rich.
KP ,   kp_nkpg@hotmail.com   (08.27.09)
Find the biggest political hothead you can think of…. No not Berlusconi! He might be Europe’s local leading hothead but he is way too unpredictable so it’s hard to foresee his actions. Who will be next…? Yes Lieberman! A perfect choice! He is not only a fanatic; he is also not that bright. (Even for a right wing warmonger. Scary shit. ) Then we need to find an enemy. Preferably another right winger, since as I said most of these guys will do exactly what you want em to do as long as you point them in the right direction. (“Cause Right is might, point the way and we will shoot. “ Yea you all know how they work) If the politician in question are being heavily criticized by his own people for changing the freedom laws it’s even better. Who do we find? Yea Fredrik Rensvelt. A not to popular prime minister of a silly little country called Sweden, who are being heavily criticized back home for falling for the pressure from the USA. ( A foreign power! Even better) to change some laws in order to get rid of the terrible internet terrorist league known as the pirate bay! Now you make up a random lie about the fist country (Israel) and post it in a random newspaper in the other country. (Sweden) Here is the crucial point. Make sure that you own all the material of your article! Pictures and all! When this is done you call Mr. Lieberman and say have you read this horrible article in the Swedish newspaper yadi yadi yadi. Don’t tell him that the article is published in the same spot were once or twice a year someone claims that they have seen Elvis. He will not check this out. (Remember rightwing extremists and intelligence don’t match. But you already knew that) All you need to do know is to convince Liberman not to ask the government of Sweden if they believe in the article. But demand! That they condemn it! (Big difference!) Poor Reinsvelt know can’t do anything but say. “No we can’t condemn an article written in a newspaper yadi yadi yadi” People must understand that it’s in his own best interest to do this if he wants to be reelected next year. There is still time for him to change his reputation and become a defender of freedom of speech! (A silly thing that the silly Swedes take far too serous. Must be because they haven’t been in a war for such a long time! They should go invade Norway) Anyway now we just count on hotheads on the internet to clash over this issue (Not to hard since there’s a lot of stupid people in any given country). Media all over the world will find news value in this and tad a! Buy your article and your pictures. Sit back. Enjoy a whiskey and se the money roll in. What’s that? Did someone already do this? Ah Not to worry it’s not a onetime deal. You can do this as often as you like as long as there is people ready to overreact and make a hen out of a feather for you. Best wishes do all ye wonderful people. And a special thanks yo Ynet for an awesome news site.
85. #78
Hemsk ,   Sweden   (08.27.09)
"I read all your responses, why are you so obssesed with us anyway? " This thread is about Sweden. Why are you obsessed with Sweden ? "Please keep your relegious tolerence at home." I will when you keep your religious faith at home. "Woman circumcision is not a religious practice." I disagree " And the CDC in America is going to recoemmend circumcision to all males by the way." Who the hell are the CDC and will they be recommending breast tissue removal on infants soon ? Does not change the fact that unnecessary surgical procedures on infants is A. dangerous, and B. morally unjust. "I am totally secular" So then you are very critical of the religious that have hijacked your country I guess. " and I have no idea where you bring all this hatred towrds Jewish religion." I have a wide-spectrum dislike of all religions. If you were truly secular you would understand why. "I hope you treat muslims better." I don't ! "I know we do! " They don't need permits to travel in Sweden dude, and there are no roadblocks.
86. #82
Hemsk ,   Sweden   (08.27.09)
"The Swedish FM supported the book that the same reporter published with teh same accusations" Support in what way ? I "What I don't understand is Swedish impotence." I don't understand the Israeli method of employing foreign ministers that lack diplomatic skill. "then Sweden should have not kept quite all these years." Bollocks, don't you think our government has other things to do than comment on low quality journalism ? "If Swedish govmnt thinks there is no shred of evidence it should sya something." No, why should they ? " the same as press conferences that the PM holds do not require a parliament permit" You need to figure out the difference between a trash-rag and the swedish government. Should Israel apologize for THIS article ? It is called "Kingdom of hatred" after all. That could be very hurtful for a Swedish national chauvinist without national confidence. "Wait, maybe you don't understand democracy? " Haha, for a gun toting representative of Israel, that is very rich.
87. to #77 Hemsk
susan ,   Kfar Saba and USA   (08.27.09)
You comment just show a lack of respect for other people's religious beliefs. This lack of respect makes it necessay for Swedish Jews to import their meat from England, because Swedish law prohibits kosher slaughter. Fortunately, the United States has a constitution and so the Americans would never dream of making laws that restrict peoples normal religious practices. Such unfair laws would be struck down by the Supreme Court in no time. For example, it would never happen in the US that Muslim girls would be forbidden to wear a head scarf like in France.
88. #80
Hemsk ,   Sweden   (08.27.09)
"ALLOWING FALSE RELIGIONS, ARE NO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM," First, why are you SCREAMING ? Second, before you manage to prove the presence of god, all religions are naturally false. "AS ALLOWING NAZI - OPINNION ABOUT - DAS HERRENFOLK -, IS NOT POLITICAL FREEDOM. " Of course it is. Do you mean it isn't ? Please explain.
89. #83
Hemsk ,   Sweden   (08.27.09)
"Can you please condamn the uggly article of your Aftonbla...bla...and his stupid reports....??? " As a french man, please condemn the Rainbow Warrior bombing !
90. Not anti-semitism....
MOI ,   TA   (08.27.09)
Why Israel immidiately shouts ANTI-SMITISM...We are Israelies. Israeli is a nationality, Jewish is a religion, seems people get all the time confused, special Israelies, please call its citizines Israelies, no matter which religion they have....these articles from Sweden have nothing to do with anti-semite, it accuses the Israeli Army....has nothing to do with religion... btw SEPERATE RELIGION & STATE NOW, IF ISRAEL WANTS FINALLY TO JOIN THE 21ST CENTURY!!!!
Previous talkbacks
Next talkbacks
Back to article