Opinion
Chelsea Clinton's bridegroom
Aliza Lavi
Published: 01.01.10, 13:05
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61. mixed marriages work
oliver ,   eilat   (01.02.10)
mixed mariages work,15 yrs ,two kids and still going,respect and love one another ,religion doesnt matter .My kids grow up with jewish and christian values
62. 18 Abdel
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (01.02.10)
Albert Einstein was a great supporter of a State here . He was one of the promoters of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem . When asked to become israel's first president he allegedly answered : i can direct atoms but not Humans .
63. Ginette , 29 & 30
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (01.02.10)
And you dream to make Alyah to this country as described by this daCON ? Everything is related to the way you tell it . Saying that it's a tragedy is not the same as talking about the pejorative "shikse" or "alte goyte" . You see the difference i suppose . We had friends , he a very assimilated Jew , she a fine Gentile . Their children married non Jews .......As i said it already more than once , first you have half Jews , then 1/4 , then no more Jewish at all . Sad .
64. Hmmm
Conker ,   Israel   (01.02.10)
Looking at her picture, its quite obvious that she herself is product of intermarriage several generations ago, as absolute majority of all modern jews. There is no such thing as pure blood jew.
65. Article is totally stupid.
John ,   Europe   (01.02.10)
1) In the whole article, there is no mentioning that most of today's Jews are WERE converts in some point of their ancestry. There are families in Israel that marry their children ONLY to the family that can claim heritage to Shlomo's day's, remember? I know one. So, Judaism was ALWAYS relying on converts and they are major asset and help in Judaism's preservation. This was not mentioned in article, but it is extremely important. 2) Article is written as if intermarriages are the main grave danger for Judaism. Actually, if you look at the figures, the major threat for Judaism is the fact that people who are JEWISH, do not care to be Jewish - do not know what is Shabat, what are the laws for shabat etc. What is interesting - most of these people marry only Jews and produce Jews. But the fact that synagogues are empty, except for High Holidays, is labeled "not dangerous". What is stupid, no? 3) Article does not take in consideration something what is very common - that a person marries a non-jew, she/he does not want to convert, but DISREGARDS her religion. The dominant person in that relationship - usually a Jewish partner - then imposes his religion and the whole family after a while embraces Judaism. If a dominant partner is a male, his children usually in next generation attend gjur. I can testify for at least 10 cases here in my country. So, yes, the article is totally flawed and stupid. And takes old and outdated position without showing all the facts.
66.  to 1
nahla ,   jerusalem   (01.02.10)
before 48 there were many jewish girls married moslem men i know some of them they were good familyies with intilegent children ..as islam permit these marrigies .but now it is a political issue not religouse or national ..
67. to 18 abdkarim
nahla ,   jerusalem   (01.02.10)
do islam tell you not to be honest or educated or do you create your intillegent or your eyes or ears or heart ... i think may you are confused or other thing ... it is my thought only
68. to Aliza Lavi
female ,   TA   (01.02.10)
Go bake some cookies, I didn't finish the article even, what a bullshit, let people marry with whoever they want, live and let live, there are NO guarantees in life, the only garantee is that eventually we all die, Aliza put your energy in your own marriage and your probably 6 kids...or more
69. No. 18
(01.02.10)
You seem to be unaware of the fact that being irreligious and being a Zionist are not mutually exclusive. The founders of the State of Israel were Zionists who, in most cases, were Socialists, and, in some cases, atheists and agnostics with a considerable antipathy toward religion.
70. Should we interfere in their marriage?
Eitan ,   Israel   (01.02.10)
I am not sure what the author means...Like crash their wedding? Oh no, she kind of understands that we unfortunatelly have no real power over everybody's marriage choises, so she suggests that the least we could do is to censor our media when it comes to intermarriages. It's embarassing to see this kind of article where all the world can read it and think how primitive we must be. And please stop comparing intermarriage to the Holocaust- it doesn't kill, torture and enslave any human being, it doesn't leave the survivors with horrible psychological traumas, it's not inhuman and mostly has to do with love and personal life of individual people. You make it sound as if Holocaust was bad because it posed a threat to the religion, not because it caused people unimaginable suffering.
71. 57 Connie, Virginia: I asked the Lord about you and there...
Rivkah   (01.02.10)
you are in a post. Glad you are all right. Hope Christy of Boston is too, who has not posted for a long time. The Israeli Supreme Court recognized the legality of Messianic Judaism in Israel a year or so ago. I think there are a lot of righteous Gentiles (Joes if descended from tribes of Joseph or Manasseh, and Ephraim, Joseph's sons) who help Israel and may someday live in an expanded Israel after the Messiah comes and some before that, perhaps. Did the cbn.com story indicate Christian zionists could aliyah to Israel or was it about something else. Missed that one. Rabbi Yeshua was concerned for his brethren, the Jews, so my greater concern is to assist ynet readers who are the brethren of Rabbi Yeshua even though many rejected him. The Prophet Zechariah said when the Jewish Messiah comes as the Lion of Judah, his brethren will mourn as if they lost their first born son when they realize who he is and was and always will be. He will tell them he was wounded in the house of his friends. He does not call the Jews his enemies, so there must be a plan to redeem those who were blinded so that the Gentiles could be grafted onto the faith. I found part of it in a verse that says for Jews, saving faith is returning to their homeland. That could be the actual physical return or never forgetting Jerusalem, in my opinion, which they never did. Although under chastisement, they believe in Adonai and the coming Messiah and treasure the commandments. So Judaism is far from being an anti-Christ religion that denies the Father and the Son. It is just that the Jews know the son as Emmanuel (God with us) and do not know he came before since if they had known, the Gentiles could not have been grafted in because the Kingdom of God would have been established long ago on the earth with the Messiah simply dying of a broken heart and resurrecting instead of the cruel Roman death. The Roman guards were Turkish recruits who slayed him and they were transferred to Pompeii where Mount Vesuvius erupted and slayed in a cruel death of ashes and suffocation as they were forbidden to leave their posts. Then eternal torment for their souls.
72. B------t. I don't know if Ynet uses the
(01.02.10)
word, but this article is pure unadulterated b------t. I haven't read such trash in a long, long time. The author should be ashamed of herself!
73. That's the question
Alexandre Chinovich   (01.02.10)
What becomes a real problem is not interreligious or international relations within young couples. The problem is that many American Jews support the policy directed at humiliation and destruction of Israel. The problem is that young Marc in the nearest future may say that Jerusalem should be divided to become a two-state capital.
74. John
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (01.02.10)
1] Jews in some point were converts . You wrote . Can you give some SERIOUS references ? 2] if they marry Jews , and even if they don't observe religious Jews , they remain Jewish . To marry a Jew you have to be in Jewish circles , school , organisations . So not lost at all 3 ] the "dominant" partner will impose his religion . You wrote . Someone marrying a Gentile is per definition NOT religious , will having no religion to impose . They will have "half" Jewish children , who also will marry non Jews , and they will be NO more Jewish at all . Don't come with people you allegedly know , i know others , totally lost to the Jewish people .
75. mixed marriage
David Baden ,   Adelaide Australia   (01.02.10)
Hitler must be laughing in his grave.The Jewish people are doing to themselves exactly what he wanted ,only in a slower and more insidious way.I blame partially the Jewish education system for not teaching historical and ethnic pride to ensure that our children have a positive identity as Jews,and to be proud of their Semitic heritage.
76. Chelsea's grandma is Jewish
Teller ,   Earth   (01.02.10)
So technically, so is she. All you racial purists should be very happy now, no?
77. Charles, 74
John ,   Europe   (01.02.10)
1) My first and foremost reference is TORAH. If you do not remember, Israel was given Torah under Sinai and in that moment they become Israel. Rabbis teach that: a) this is moment of conversion from idolaters which they were in Egypt (and it was practiced afterward, remember?) and b) there are occasional references in Torah that it were NOT ONLY "genetic" Jews, the ones that have blood from Jaakov's sons, were under Sinai. Hence we have even a name of one: BITIAH. Read Midrash Raba about this. My second source is the Melek David's grandmother who was NOT Jewish. Now, to give the honor and to place a non-Jew in Mesianic line is a message from G-d, don't you think? Third - this is off topic, but still ponder on this - who made the temple? Shlomo ordered it, gathered materials, but who was the constructor and architect? Why Hiram of Tzor! A NON-Jew! And ultimate honor - construction of G-d's house itself - was given to non-Jew! My last serious reference is Khazar conversion - but this is not big issue so I will not elaborate it here. But suffice to say that today you CANNOT distinguish who from Ashkenazim are Khazar converts and who are "blood-originals" from Eretz. 2) True, they remain Jewish. But HOW Jewish? If I remember well, Judaism is determined SOLELY through religion! That that somebody is a Jew or not a Jew - no secular law is written about this (except Nurmberg laws, but let's not go there...). You are a Jew because HALACHA - a religious law! - says so. And then you have a paradox: you disregard religion and you even claim it is not truth, but you still take its laws as laws (by "you" I don't mean you as you Charles, I mean as somebody, a subject we were talking about, that Jew). So in the end, you HAVE a danger that a persons will TOTALLY disregard the Halacha laws and will ADAPT another set of laws that would, in the end, render them unjewish. I don't know if you understand me, this is complicated and is certainly not a material for "comments" in a newspaper magazine. 3) True, that person is not religious, but in terms of keeping mitzvot etc. But it still has certain attachment to Judaism and still, for example, comes to service in Yom Kippour. And yes, they can be lost... But how many are not lost, but come back. This is where you and I differ: you have too small faith in G-d. I have faith that He will keep His promise and sustain us until the end of time. Our troubles now, looking so big on TV, are actually a minor nuances compared to what we passed. Do not forget: ANYTHING happens with the will of G-d and so are these intermarriages! And I believe they have the purpose! Like Rabbi Kook defended seculars in front of congregation of Orthodox Rabbis that they will have a purpose - and they did, they made Israel (NOT Maimonides, NOT Nachmanides, NOT Aria Kadosh, NOT Joseph Karo etc.). So dry your tears, and think of intermariages as "weeding out" the people who do not deserve to be in Jewish nation, if you please so. :) I know that blood-worshiping is then painstaking, but... :)
78. Chelsea
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (01.02.10)
Could it be that Chelsea thinks she's just marrying another decent American, whose religion happens to be different from hers? Big Deal! Maybe some day it'll be more important for people in Israel to identify themselves primarily as Israelis than by some branch of Judaism or by the neck of the woods from which their parents or grandparents came. When my family gets together, the last thing I think about is the religion or national origin of the kids' and grandkids' spouses. As long as they behave decently and treat each other with love and respect, they could be from another planet for all I care. I was put through the wringer when I brought home a "cowboy" (American) with a religion nobody had ever heard of (Southern Baptist) Well, I married him, anyway, and though we bickered a lot about my propensity for buying shoes and burning dinner, I don't remember ever doing so about religion or where we came from.
79. John
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (01.02.10)
The Torah is a very old history book , the Jewish people was composed by many peoples then . Antisemites say that East European Jewsw come from the khazars . Not a very serious point . Seculars who marry other Jewish seculars REMAIN 100 % Jewish , not religious , but not Gentiles either . I knew some in my birth country , they all had a seder Pesach and were reading the Hagaddah . And i'm one of them , my children went to a Jewish school , in Western Europe where we lived , from kindergarten to 18 year . And we all made Alyah . When you got intermarried , nothing Jewish anymore after two or three generations , not even going to a beth knesseth for Kol Nidre [ i don't do it either ] .
80. 76. this is not about racism...it's about survival
(01.02.10)
if you weren't so quick to point a finger, you might take the time to TRY to understand.
81. 15 Besalel. Most Jews who intermarry are ignorant of Judaism
Chaim ,   Israel   (01.02.10)
The ``quality over quantity`` argument is often made to justify doing nothing as Jews marry out of our community. However, quantity is important. If the pool of marriageable Jews continues to shrink, there will be little selection available for Jews to find Jewish mates in the Diaspora. Thus the disease of intermarriage feeds upon itself. Most Jews who intermarry are ignorant about Judaism. They choose short term attraction over long term happiness, and incidentally face a far higher risk of divorce. There are some excellent Jewish identity programs in Israel, which are known to have saved many Jews from intermarriage. Parents should also consider cutting intermarried children out of their will and instead donate the money to charities perpetuating Judaism and strengthening Israel.
82. Chaim . and sitting shiva too ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (01.02.10)
for their outmarried children ? What a fanatic guy you are . The best thing to avoid intermarriage abroad is to send your children to a full time , not necessarely religious , Jewish school . That will reduce the risk of having your children leaving our people .
83. I agree with Charls
motti ,   bet shemesh   (01.02.10)
about Jewish survival. But we might disagree on how to perserve the Jewsih Family. I do not want this to become a debate on Chareidim as I do not justify some of their behaviour and poor leadership. I do howver want to stress the critical need to hold on to our Jewsih heritage and Torah values. This is the main platform of the Orthodox Jew in Israel. The secular in Israel need to start showing more respect for Torah and mitzvot and not see Torah as a threat to their freedom, But rather a freedom and true everlastin indipendance from the secular world that stabs us in the back through out history. G-D, ISREAL and TORAH are ONE Only then does the world respect us and we survive.
84. Intermarriage
Felix ,   Toronto   (01.02.10)
The Orthodox have managed to successully politicize the conversion issue by being in charge of the "who is a Jew" question and making sure that "Halachically pure" conversions recognized in Israel are Orthodox. Their approach is you are an accepted Ger if you live the Orthodox lifestyle. So the 300,000 people in Isreal and countless couples abroad are SOL. They play G-d, we pay the price. I am not sure Ruth, Sheba and many others would have been thrilled about the idea of having a Bet Din judge their devotion to Jewishness. But in the land of Israel, acceptance is not a word that finds wide usage.
85. learn 4000 years O Jewish history like you stocks & bonds,
Ken ,   Boulder US   (01.02.10)
sports, civil rights, & cooking recipes. Unfortunately many US Jews are familiar with some of these things, but few know their own past and the lessons & color therein.
86. #76, AND WHATS WRONG WITH PURIST RACISM TO INSURE TORAH JEWS
.....DACON9   (01.03.10)
#76, AND WHATS WRONG WITH PURIST RACISM TO INSURE TORAH JEWS SURVIVAL. NOTHING IS WRONG WITH IT #84 YOU PAY THE PRICE FOR SHORT CUTTING THE TORAH FOR BY PASSING THE ANCIENT RABBINCAL LAWS OF CONVERSION. IT IS **YOU THAT POLITICIZE THE CONVERSION PROCESS SO YOU CAN *WIN* YOU DONT WANT TO SERVE THE GD OF ISRAEL YOU WANT TO SERVE YOUR SELFISH EGOTISICAL MATERIAL WORLD. IF YOU WANTED TO BE A JEW , YOU WOULD WANT TO KNOW WHAT GD WANTS NOT WHAT YOUR LESBIAN GUITAR PLAYING so called feminist rabbi wants. RUTH SAID .. ''YOU GD IS MY GD' YOUR WAYS ARE MY WAYS'' AND SO SHE SHOWED THIS IN MANY WAYS I am sure all the ways RUTH has shown ...you would not approve of. MOSES father in law suggested to MOSES that he should appoint others to make decisions and rulings AS THE BURDEN IS TO HEAVY FOR ONE MAN AND HIS FATHER IN LAW WAS NOT A JEW. so amigo... there are rightious of all the nations. You can also be rightious after you learn the rules of the game you are playing. as of now i suggest you learn the NOAHIDE LAWS WHICH EVERY JEW also should know. They arepart of the 613 LAWS. BUY SOME BOOKS SEEK OUT A COMPETENT ORTHODOX TORAH RABBI TO SHOW YOU HOW TO BE A RIGHTOUS GOY.(non Jew) or go to church and leave observant JEWS to THEIR TORAH DACON9 EMAIL:jewswithviews@gmail.com
87. Intermarriage always worked both ways and especially in
leo ,   usa   (01.03.10)
favor of Jewish side when woman is the one who is Jewish, which is much more important anyway.
88. #71 Rivkah
Connie ,   Virginia   (01.03.10)
I just checked cbn.com. and it's still there. just go to their web site and click on cbn news. " Israel may reward Christian Zionists for their Faithfulness".
89. TMR; Your children are GENTILES!
(01.03.10)
Your wife is a Gentile so your children are Gentiles. Only Jewish women can give birth to and raise Jewish children. End of story.
90. Just shaking my head
Jens ,   TA   (01.03.10)
Everybody who need some ideas of how to treat mixed marriages study german history of the last century.
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