Jewish Scene
Pray in mosque, rabbi rules
Ynet
Published: 13.02.11, 07:57
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61. prayer and place
dan ,   teaneck, usa   (02.13.11)
The rabbi's ruling is about the wish to enhance concentration during prayer. The consideration is about whether a random quiet room, or one often used for another religion's prayer is somehow inherently destructive to Jewish prayer. The rabbi is not claiming an underlying rationship or lack thereof between any religions, only that there is an accepted idea that Islam has as its notion of the divine, that single and unified monotheistic god and christianity has in some way compromisd that through the idea of the trinity and the independent power of a "satan". This is not a new nor revolutionary answer but is good to hear said in the open. And, no, I don't go into churches even to visit and somehow I still live with others without offending them.
62. BETTER TO PRAY IN AN EMPTY STAIRWELL THAN A MOSQUE ANY TIME
(02.13.11)
i would not chance it, going into a mosque under any circumstances nor would i go into a church either. pray at home. if you do not find any meaning in either places, at home or in an empty location where there is quiet, then dont pray. and the Vilna Gaon told me this andhe knew what was right.
63. The Rabbi is speaking the TRUTH..
Abdallah ,   London   (02.13.11)
and it si simply amazing. As mentioned by other talkbacks, this is the view of traditional Orthodox Judaism, and is the ruling of the great RAMBAM A"H. What is interesting about this ruling in our times, is that it shows that true jewish belief puts belief in and service of G-d above all else - even politics.
64. to #58 all the muslim prophets r jews
ghostq   (02.13.11)
minus one, Jesus was jewish and was crusifies as jewish, and chritianity is based on judaism since we pray from the same book as jews, aka old testament, go check it we also have the same holidays as jews, such as pentecost and Shavouth to easter aka pass over. funny how islam based her theology on other people faith and naratives.
65. usually empty of people who are not praying?
observer ,   Egypt   (02.13.11)
he must have been dreaming all the time because Muslims pray 5 times/day and at any time and in ANY place. Do Jews pray in Churches? the people who are not praying pray at another time in other places, but not behind a rabbi.
66. This rabbi is 100% correct!
Jake ,   USA   (02.13.11)
There is no prohibition against praying in a mosque. Anyone who argues that it is a place of "idol worship" is ignorant. Christian propaganda has done enough damage to Jewish-Muslim relations, thank you Rabbi Efrati!
67. mosque
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (02.13.11)
Rabbi Efraty forgot to add,if there are not enough Jews to form a minyan,muslims can fill in.
68. My Yom Kippur in church
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (02.13.11)
Years ago I arrived as a college freshman only days before Yom Kippur in a small town in upstate New York. The university's Hillel Director - rabbi of a small Conservative congregation - informed me that services would be held in a church in the nearby downtown because the synagogue had burned down. This particular church was deemed acceptable because the sanctuary contained NO statues or Christian iconography. To the question of Christianity being avoda zara (idolatry), that's changed over time, as the scholar Jacob Katz outlined in several volumes. Once deemed idolatrous, that's no longer the mainstream view. Finally, to the question of the mosque: I think Efrati is being very foolish, as mosques too often perpetuates loathing for Jews (no surprise, as that loathing is all in the Quran). Yes, Maimonides saw Islam as a monotheistic faith, but he also knew firsthand of their cruelty toward Jews. (cf. his Letter to the Jews of Yemen)
69. Prayer room
Israeli grandma   (02.13.11)
I have visited hospitals and airports where there is a "non-denominational chapel" or room set aside for private prayer. Provided you do not pray aloud you disturb nobody else.
70. Sorry Ismail (#58)
Shmuel ,   Maale Adumim   (02.13.11)
the G-d of the bible is a G-d of love. He loves his followers. The god of the qur'a never ever mentiones love. only behadings and death! I am sorry to tell you that you are following a false god!
71. 55 where did you find "curse"? not in my post!
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (02.13.11)
He slanders me because he's a Christian, I demonstrate with overwhelming evidence, in several books and our website, that Christianity is a false displacement religion of the 2nd-4th century misojudaic (antinomian / antisemitic) Roman Hellenists--NOT the 1st century Torah-teaching Pharisee Ribi--and he has no intelligent answer to offer. Baseless slander (he never provides quotations or evidence of anything) and the fallacy of ad hominem are all he can write. He proves it with monotonous consistency.
72. Christian #54
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (02.13.11)
Before I found Torah, I was a Baptist preacher who attended Hampden DuBose Academy 2 years (the elite boarding school to which Billy Graham sent his daughter). I've often been in Anglican and Lutheran churches. You define idols differently than Jews. All of the depictions of Jzeus that you are so fond of, not to mention the depictions of the apostles and saints and Mary, are all idols as Torah defines an idol. So, Baptist, Lutheran and Anglican are no exceptions. Christian churches have many idols, and EVERY Christian worships one of them. That is the core definition of a Christian. Some Christians worship two of them (Mary "Mother of gxd"). This is simply a point of fact (not hatred). Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer & Orthodox Jew: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming all who choose to keep Torah (When questions to me go unanswered, they have refused to post it. Find our reply in our Web Café at www.netzarim.co.il)
73. 55 - his cult is a conduit for his hate
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.13.11)
identify yourself and he has a pre-sorted list of curses, names, and epithets ready to spew your direction. it's like the sun rising each morning, say "christian" and the hatred erupts. actually, it doesn't even take that much to get him going. sad for the boy.
74. Prayer rooms
mapa ,   Bradford, England   (02.13.11)
most airports/offices in the uk now have multifaith prayer-rooms. I regular see simon who is reading from the Torah, whilst I pray my maghrib(sunset) salat. This is a non issue. People need to show a little humanity and accomodation.
75. The Rabbi didn't one thing
Yehuda   (02.13.11)
Pray in the mosque where Abraham is buried is by appointment only and strongly guarded by the IDF. Can anyone pray with meaning and without fear in a mosque without this protection for fear of not getting his head cut off?! Also, it is written in the Talmud that it is better to pray without a minyin and at home the prayer at HaNetz than to pray with a minyin in the shul after HaNetz. I can give a couple of other references in MaAm Lo'Ez on praying at home as oppossed to the shul as well.
76. Jewish Prayer in a Mosque...
HarryE ,   Los Angeles, USA   (02.13.11)
...is like eating dinner in a bathroom.
77. #45 The Rabbi DOESN'T "know his stuff"
Joseph ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.13.11)
The Mosque on the Temple Mount is heavily guarded so that Jews will not pray there. The Mosque at where Abraham is buried is heavily guarded so that Jews can pray there. Any other Mosque that is not heavily guarded so that the Jews will be allowed or not be allowed is a danger to ones life; therefore, this Rabbi doesn't know what he is talking about because one has to protect oneself in a place of danger and he is advocating to pray in a place of danger. If you haven't learned by now #45, the Muslims hate the Jews so much that they want to kill us Jews. When you go to a mosque to pray and a muslim sticks a knife next to your throat, tell him that this Rabbi gave you permission to pray there.
78. also note
dan ,   teaneck usa   (02.13.11)
this ruling is not about the practicality or political ease of praying in a mosque. If one fears for his life, or if the mosque would not enhance his concentration, it clearly does not satisfy the category the rabbi has in mind. He was answering about a particular case - not issuing a ruling about all places, cases and times. I have davened in the stairwell of hospitals, at baseball stadiums and in empty conference rooms. The only question is whether the place, itself, creates an environment antithetical to prayer by simply being associated with a theology which denies a central truth of Judaism.
79. #1 yes they can and they can eat our food!!
Essie HaKohane ,   Florida, USA   (02.13.11)
When I was a kid, the kosher butcher had many Moslem customers because kosher meat fulfilled Halal requirements. Now, Moslems are forbidden, and it has nothing to do with halal. It has to do with anti-Jewish feelings. So who's more open and receptive to whom?
80. 71 - no, i don't "slander" you because i'm a christian
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.13.11)
i merely point out the truth that a) you teach things that are clearly deviant from jewish orthodoxy, and b) you can't/won't get a current (read: CURRENT) legit rabbinic authority to verify that your teachings are kosher (let's hear from the ones who know). it's not "slander", it's calling a spade a spade and querying you to back up your baseless claims. i've even offered to shut up if i get proof, but alas... nothing. been asking for many years, STILL hasn't delivered the goods.
81. 72 - been in church all my life and NEVER saw an idol
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.13.11)
saw some in caholic churches, but never in any of my churches growing up. you claim you were baptist and saw idols there?? now you really make me think you are even making your past up. keep talking - you lose more credibility the more you speak.
82. BEWARE Airport Prayer Rooms
Yossi ,   Israel   (02.13.11)
For some years I was a frequent traveler in the USA. Once when looking for a place to pray I went to the designated prayer room in the airport - it was empty excepting a few seats and a moslem prayer mat. However at the front of the room was a plain white curtain when I looked behind the curtain I was shocked to find a Crucifix and other Christian paraphenalia. Needless to say I didn't pray there. Its not hard to find a quiet spot to pray at even the most busy of airports - but don't use the prayer room unless you check it first.
83. to #24 I only attend an orthodox shul!
jason white ,   afula,israel   (02.13.11)
But you are right. I should only write about things I know. I know you are a fool like efrati.Jews do not pray in mosques and should not pray in mosques.Just because some "rabbi" says so does not make it right.Would you follow the rulings of a neutrei karta "rabbi"? Or a reform "rabbi"? I am not religious, but I would not even want to listen to what they or a hara-di "rabbi" says. The title rabbi does not mean that the person is correct 100% of the time.I know it would be hard for you,but use a little common sense. Furthermore, we would never allow a moslim to pray in our shul.We are not PC.
84. To #35 Rachel, if I had a penny for every
jason white ,   afula,israel   (02.13.11)
Jew that was forcibly converted to islam or killed resisting conversion, I would retire today. There were stories in the news a couple of years ago about two Jewish orphan girls were kidnapped, converted and married to moslims in yemen. I heard stories from my late wife about Jewish girls kidnapped in morroco, converted to islam and married to moslims. As well as someone telling me about her aunt in turkey forcibly converted and married off to a moslim. They wil either convert you to islam or kill you. That is their religion.
85. #77 OH YES HE DOES
LAWRENCE ,   SAFED ISRAEL   (02.13.11)
DON'T ARGUE.
86. 80 You're a Christian TOTALLY ignorant of Jewish Orthodoxy
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (02.13.11)
You have no clue! Go take care of your Palestinian Christian wife and leave Jews alone. We don't want your Christian butting in. My Orthodox Jewish documents (accessible in our website) and my continuing home among Orthodox Jews and in an Orthodox synagogue for more than a decade attest to my situation. If you had any intelligence you'd let Orthodox rabbis and Jews take care of Orthodox Jewish matters and keep your Christian nose out of our affairs. But thanks for yet another opportunity to set the record straight for those with the intelligence to check the facts.
87. #80/81
Ross ,   London, UK   (02.13.11)
The idol is in your heart. Even in a church with no crucifix on the wall, you still direct your prayers to a human, fall on your knees to a man. This is avodah zara, with or without icons on the walls. You degrade G-d by limiting him to a man.
88. Religions
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (02.13.11)
These talkbacks are hilarious and prove only one thing: All Revealed Religions are BS. Portions of the OT are no less ridiculous than tthose in the NT, with the Koran taking the cake for combining the garbage of both.
89. To Mike Carmel # and Salma #1
Phoenix ,   Israel   (02.13.11)
First of all mike, Yes the Rabbi it is Right. In our religion it's forbiden to get near to a church or to any other pagan temple. Islam it's Monotheistic religion, maybe the only one beside Judaism. Besides Muslims are our Cousins they only pray to G-d, not to any dead man. That's why it's for us Kosher to Pray in a Mosque. To Salma, Would Muslims like to pray on a Synagogue?? That's the Right Question.
90. To#84 Josef, christianity was/is notorious for organised
rachel ,   galut   (02.13.11)
forcible conversion of Jews since it's begining as '' religion''. May I remind you of inquisition, crusaders, mass kidnapping of Jewish children during and after world wars, baptising them and raising them as christians. For you to give example of few girls who might have fallen in love and accepted Islam as a way to get married is, if nothing insulting to neshamot of all countless Jews who were burnt alive or converted under blade of knife by your beloved '' christians''. As far as that '' aunt from Turkey'' story, it's complete fabrication. I am Sefaradi and know of number of our women who have decided to marry with Muslim, and have converted in process, BUT NOBODY has forced them to do so. And i repeat there NEVER was organised attempt to forcibly convert Jews by Muslims, NEVER... only chrostians have done that and still do through their so called '' messianic Jews'' movement. Just now they brainwash Jews as they can't use torture wheel any longer. I am really sick of all these christian '' lovers'' here, christians guising themselves as Jews and all other assorted haters.
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