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Photo: GPO
Former army chief Gantz
Photo: GPO

Former IDF chief Gantz: I might never go into politics

As the Palmach marks 75 years to its formation, the former IDF chief met with the oldest of the organization's veterans, Pini Weinstein, to talk about what has changed, and what remains the same; and it's enough to hear what he thinks about Barak's recent comments to understand why he won't go into politics.

When former IDF chief Benny Gantz entered his home, Pini Weinstein, already 97 years old, sat up straight in his wheelchair and saluted. Gantz, who is free of any trappings of authority, warmly shook the hand of one of the last remaining fighters from the Palmach generation, and told him: "It's all thanks to you. I know what you gave to Israel. Without you, there would be no state and no army. When you look at what we have here, what do you think?"

 

 

Weinstein doesn't even wait a moment before answering: "It's very sad. The state is being run poorly. The leadership is hindering the state, and that is why I am sad. This is not the state I dreamed about."

 

Gantz: "What would you have wanted to happen?"

 

Weinstein: "For the subordinates to believe their commanders; for people to be willing to run after their commanders; for the purity of arms to reign supreme; for us to remember to be human beings; for us to pay attention to our fellow men. That is why we came here, that is why we fought. Alongside that, however, there is the joy that we actually have our own state, even though it is heading in a terrible direction. Actually, it has no direction. The leadership is terrible. I believe Bibi is leading us into a deep hole. The society is much more violent than I would've liked. We used to be greeted with cheers in the world, and now I'm ashamed to go abroad. We're scorned."

 

Gantz: "Let's leave the political aspect aside. About the social aspect, what you pointed out as good things, they happen in the army. In general, there is a certain level of social care for one another that we see in difficult moments, and there should be more of it. We don't need war for solidarity to rise. Social unity is very important. If you look at the early days of Israel compared to today - there was a different way the different organizations operated, but there was unity in striving for the same goal."

 

Weinstein and Gantz (Photo: Yuval Chen)
Weinstein and Gantz (Photo: Yuval Chen)
 

Unlike today. For example, the recordings of Ehud Barak in which he leaks who supported and who opposed a strike against Iran.

 

"I don't know what the circumstances were which led to the recordings being released, but I do know that cabinet discussions should not be open. Whether what happened was legal or not, I don't know. Everyone knows what I think about a cabinet that talks too much. I've been dealing with cabinets that talk too much until almost a year ago. I've had enough. We should remember that Pini's generation spoke in plural form. They always thought about a goal bigger than themselves. These values have been forgotten here. I would like to remind everyone that there are things more important than ego."

 

Nevertheless, were there preparations to attack the Iranian nuclear facilities while you were chief of staff?

 

"Of course there were. What is an army's job if not to make plans?"

 

And the ministers that Barak said opposed a strike, did they also oppose it while you were IDF chief?

 

"Let's not get into it."

 

From the Palmach to the IDF

The last few remaining Palmach fighters will gather on Tuesday evening to mark 75 years to the formation of the organization. The event, perhaps the last of its kind considering the advanced age of the fighters, will take place at the Culture Palace in Tel Aviv and attended by President Reuven Rivlin and current IDF Chief of Staff Gadi Eisenkot.

 

The veteran fighters will reminisce, tell tales about sitting around the bonfires and drinking from the finjan (small metal coffee pot), and miss "the old man" - Palmach commander Yitzhak Sadeh.

 

The day before, former IDF chief Benny Gantz, whose parents were in the Palmach, met with the veteran fighter Weinstein. The two had an instant connection. 

 

Weinstein was six years old when he made aliyah to the Land of Israel in 1924, straight to Tel Aviv. He was only 15 when he joined the Haganah and served as a communicator at the Haganah's Tel Aviv offices.

 

"We rode bicycles and passed on messages between the different Haganah commanders. I was the communicator for the commander of the Haganah's Reserve Platoon A in Tel Aviv," he says.

 

Weinstein and Gantz (Photo: Yuval Chen)
Weinstein and Gantz (Photo: Yuval Chen)

 

At the end of 1941, Weinstein was recruited to the Palmach. He started out as a company instructor and was later appointed a commander in Pluga Hey (Company H), under the command of Abraham Negev.

 

"As commanders, we made sure the Palmach soldiers are aware of and identify with the goals of the unit," he says. "We required each commander to earn the trust of his soldiers so they know that if he sends them into battle, he knows what he's doing. It's true that we didn't invent the use of the term 'follow me,' the Chinese did, but we put it into action it in the Palmach."

 

Gantz: "The IDF's commanders completely understand this term. It is important for leadership. I always said that if a battalion commander asks his troops to provide a status report during battle - it means he's too far behind. In battles and wars, whether you live or die comes down to the commander. During battle, people won't risk their lives for the flag, but for their friends, their commanders, their mission. It's only at the end of the battle that they realize there is a state and a flag at the top of the pyramid."

 

Weinstein: "There was openness in the Palmach. The commanders and soldiers drank from the same canteen. That is how the commander earned their trust. So much so, that when we said 'follow me,' there were guys who wanted to get there (into battle) before us."

 

Gantz: "I grew up at Kfar Ahim with tales of the Palmach, and the story of the two sons of Rivka Guber who died during the War of Independence. My wife's grandfather was the Haganah's biggest arms smuggler while he was only 13. He would drive a horse-drawn cart and when he reached the British checkpoint and they'd ask him what was in the cart, he would say 'pomegranates,' and they would say - 'Okay, kid, off you go.'

 

"When looking back at the organization's activity, it appears the phenomenon itself was much bigger than the sum of its parts. The fighting spirit, the volunteering, and the mobility - these are the things that eventually created the ethos from which the IDF grew, and on which its commanders are educated. Among other things was the saying that every commander must remember: When it rains on you, it also rains on your enemy. It was the motto of the battle of St. Simon during the War of Independence, and this is the motto that is being taught to commanders now. That's why the Haganah and the Palmach didn't just give us a state, they gave us the basis on which the IDF was formed. If you looked at the strategy and operations of the War of Independence, it appears this was one of the more brilliant campaigns, mostly because of the forces' operational mobility."

 

Meaning?

 

Gantz: "It is commonly said we were few against many back then. Numerically, that was true. But they managed, in quite a few battles, to move the forces in a way that created a balance of power that was not indicative of the actual number of troops, and managed to achieve a relative local advantage. Of course, there was also the bravery of the troops."

 

Weinstein: "You know, you're right. In the battle at Harel a problem arose at a certain point, and they brought in a naval company from Caesarea to help us. Speaking of that company, who were called Shayetet 13, they had this custom to drink alcohol on the 13th of every month. So what will you drink, chief? Beer?"

 

How to live a long life

The two raise their tall beer glasses and drink to a long life. Gantz mentions that the IDF's first six chiefs of staff were Haganah and Palmach alumni. Pini reminisces, and reveals that his secret of living for as long as he had so far was that up until six years ago, before he was confined to a wheelchair and an oxygen tank, he drank six bottles of beer a day and spent a lot of time at sea on the family boat.

 

Gantz tells him that he had just returned last week from what he called a "post army trip." He rented an RV and spent a month crisscrossing the United States with his family. While he was at it, he also gave lectures to Jewish communities.

 

"Say, Pini," Gantz asks suddenly, "Why did you call Yitzhak Sadeh, who was only 51 at the time, 'the old man'?"

 

Weinstein: "Because we were very young. Everything is relative in life. When I was 25, I was considered an old man."

 

Gantz: "As the commander of the organization, did you get to see him? Sit down with him?"

 

Weinstein: "Of course. He sat around the bonfire with us, loved to sing and drink cognac. Like everyone else, he liked the ladies. We were around him and he was talking about the purity of arms all the time. We tried to instill the issue of the purity of arms, and Sadeh, who was a genius, talked about it all the time. I admit, we weren't always successful. There was one battle when a soldier was wounded with shrapnel to his leg and he's behind a wall yelling for a medic. Meanwhile his friend is firing at the window from which the fire came, and all of a sudden a woman comes out of that house with a child in her arms, and he kept shooting, couldn't stop. It happens in every battle."

 

Gantz: "The issue of purity of arms is very important in the IDF as well."

 

Weinstein admits that, as far as he is concerned, the Palmach was the highlight of his life. And he also has no problem with "taking a jab" at the Lehi and the Irgun (Etzel), as the rivalry between the organizations rears its head all of a sudden. The Palmach, to him, is the "real thing."

 

Weinstein and Gantz talk to Nechama Duek (Photo: Yuval Chen)
Weinstein and Gantz talk to Nechama Duek (Photo: Yuval Chen)

 

I raise the possibility that the difference between the different organizations can even be noted in the lyrics and tune of their anthems.

 

The Palmach sings: "Though the storm is ever mounting / Still our heads remain unbowed. / We are ready to obey all commands, / The Palmach will win - we've vowed."

 

Meanwhile, the Lehi sings: "We are unknown soldiers, uniforms we have none, / In death's shadow we march, in its terror, / Volunteering to sever to the end of our days, / Only death from our duty can us sever."

 

Weinstein: "Our anthem is good. It makes me emotional every time I hear it."

 

Gantz: "'All our youth defend the homeland'? Oh, well. It wasn't accurate then and it's definitely not accurate now. I visited the cemetery in Kiryat Ye'arim and asked if everyone served in the War of Independence, and it turns out that even in the time of the Palmach, not everyone served, but those who didn't at least hid it. Today, that's not the case. Today it is viewed as okay not to serve, and it's a shame this is how things are."

 

Weinstein: "There were draft dodgers in the Palmach as well."

 

Gantz: "There were also those who hid behind rocks when the shots were flying. How did you handle cowards?"

 

Weinstein: "We put them in a large freezer. Ask me if they were right to dissolve the Palmach."

 

Were they right to dissolve the Palmach?

 

Weinstein: "It was a mistake and I won't add another word. Say, chief, when are you going to politics? You know there is a great responsibility on your shoulders. Is there a chance? Can we hope?"

 

Gantz: "Not now, and probably not later either."

 

But have you thought about joining politics, leading?

 

Gantz: "Do I care about this country? Very much. I gave it 38 years. Right now I'm spending time with my family, doing a little bit of business, writing. We'll see where the future leads us."

 

Weinstein: "Can I ask how old you are?"

 

Gantz: "I'm 56 years old."

 

Weinstein: "In two-three years, that would be exactly the time to take over the leadership. Benny, come to the event, there'll be a lot of people there. Ninety percent of them will vote for you if you run for prime minister."

 

Gantz: "Unfortunately, I believe that it would not be enough."

 


פרסום ראשון: 08.25.15, 23:51
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