Video footage of an online conversation between two former employees at a Sydney hospital, during which one of them allegedly made violent threats against Israelis, cannot be used as evidence in the cases against them, a court in the city ruled Tuesday.
The two, Ahmad "Rashad" Nadir and Sarah Abu Lebdeh, were filmed last year in a clip shared by Israeli content creator Max Veifer, in which they confirmed they worked at Bankstown Hospital in Sydney. When Veifer told Nadir he was from Israel, the health worker allegedly said he would be killed and sent to "Jahannam" — hell. He expressed anger that Veifer was Israeli and said he would eventually be murdered and go to hell, invoking God’s will. When Veifer asked why he would be killed, Abu Lebdeh joined the video and said Palestine was the rightful country, not his, while using profanity.
Australian hospital workers boasted they would kill Israelis and were suspended
Nadir then suggested that Veifer had no idea how many Israeli "dogs" had come to the hospital and claimed he had sent them to hell. Abu Lebdeh also attacked Veifer, allegedly saying that when he died, she wanted him to remember her face so he would understand he was going to die a horrible death. At that point, Abu Lebdeh boasted that she would not help Israelis and said she would kill them instead of treating them. Nadir joined in, saying he would send Israelis to hell while waving his hand in a threatening manner. After the video was published, the two nurses were suspended for two years.
Australia’s ABC reported that the two former nurses pleaded not guilty to using a carriage service to threaten, harass or offend. Abu Lebdeh also denies an additional charge of threatening violence against a group. Ahead of their trial in late August, defense attorneys argued that the video of the interaction, recorded by Veifer and later published to his more than 100,000 social media followers, should be excluded from the proceedings.
Nadir and Abu Lebdeh in footage published online
Earlier this month, it was argued that the footage had been obtained illegally and violated New South Wales laws prohibiting the recording of private conversations without consent. Judge Michael McHugh noted that evidence law provides that material obtained improperly or in violation of Australian law is inadmissible unless the desirability of admitting it outweighs the undesirability.
According to Australia’s ABC, the judge wrote in his ruling that he also considered whether participants in the chat service were engaged in a "private conversation" under New South Wales law.
McHugh noted that the case had already received extensive media coverage and that the video published by Veifer, whose real name is Max Ilinski, had been given even wider exposure by traditional media outlets, especially in Australia.
In his decision, the judge wrote that the applicants’ alleged statements during the online conversation appeared, at the very least, likely to be deeply disturbing to decent people everywhere. He also noted that there are differing views about what Ilinski referred to as "the war" and about antisemitism in general, topics he said could be fiercely debated by people acting both in good faith and bad faith.
McHugh added that whether the elements of the offense are proven against each of the applicants beyond the high criminal standard of proof is an entirely separate question, and one for the jury to decide, since federal offenses of this kind must be determined by a jury. Most of the judge’s reasons for the decision cannot be published because of a court order.
Abu Lebdeh’s lawyer, Rayan Kadadi, welcomed the decision outside court. Abu Lebdeh told ABC she was grateful for the court’s ruling and thanked those who had supported her, including her friends, family and lawyer.